Not an Emergency But could Use Some Help With Turkeys and Chickens With Ongoing Problems [Long]

[Haunted55]

This year has been unbelievable for problems with my chickens. Marek's and coccidiosis that just doesn't seem to go away no matter what meds I give. I have cleaned and sanitized the chicken coop repeatedly [ ended up burning my lungs from the bleach fumes ], changed to a sand litter, new roosts, limed the yard and runs. I think I've done it all. If I've missed something I don't know what it is.

I have a rooster that has been showing signs of blue on the back tips of his comb off and on for a couple of months now. Sometimes it goes away and his comb is a good healthy red but it always seems to come back. Daily it can come and go many times. No other symptoms that I can find. I haven't seen it on my girls just this rooster. I have another younger roo who still apears to have the cocci., he's been treated with all the others twice with Corid and once with Sulmet over a 2 month period. I wonder sometimes if he's a Marek's survivor and that nothing will ever help him. Not having a Vet who will treat poultry is not cool. None in my area will.

Now I have some BB White and Bronze turkeys that I believe are showing the signs of Blackhead. Out of 12, 4 are showing foamy, yellowish poop. The rest are normal right now. One I saw going to sleep with her head down, beak right on the ground. I have started giving them the cayenne pepper in their food and am waiting for the Fish Zole from Jeffer's. These turkeys were just allowed outside of their house the week before last so at least I have caught it early. It was bound to happen, no matter what I did. Even if the chickens weren't here, I have loads of wild turkeys who spend a lot of time on my land and clean up under the wild bird feeders.

So the questions;

1. Is it true that once a bird has coccidiosis they can never get it again?

2. If not true do I keep on treating them with Corid or do I just go for the Sulmet? Which could be used for long term?

3. After treating the turkeys with the Fish Zole would it be prudent to restart and continue with the cayenne as a 'just in case' ?

4. Has anyone found something that would clear the ground of these parasites? I have always used lime and wood ash on my lawn and gardens anyways. Years and years of using them. Hasn't seemed to help much if this year's problems are an indication of their effectiveness.

5. What about worming the birds? Can the turkeys and chickens be wormed the same way? Would this even help? If so what do I use and how often?

I really hope there is someone here who could give me some guidance with these problems. As I said earlier, we have no Vets in our area [100 mile radius] who will see or treat poultry so I'm 'winging' it here. I have already lost 30 birds this year to Marek's, Cocci, and pure ignorance on my part. I would truely like to stop this trend and turn things around.

 

[TwoCrows]

I have had some similar symptoms in my flock which was recently diagnosed with MS, Mycoplasma Synoviae. It is a bacterial infection that has many funky symptoms. I started seeing yellow urates in a few of my birds last fall, blue tipped combs, funky shaped eggs, anorexia, endless diarrhea,...etc... Eventually it ran rampant thru the birds and caused slightly runny noses and swollen foot joints, which MS is famous for.

Sounds like you MIGHT have a case of this running thru the flock, although I am not a vet. I used Baytril on the birds for 2 weeks and that seemed to clear up all but the swollen joints, (the joint issue is a COMPLETELY different story, LOL)

BUT...what I did to REALLY heal up these birds, and your birds sound like they could use this as well, is that I got some really good vitamin/mineral/amino acid/omega 3/pro and prebiotic mix and began pumping my birds full of it. I have been at this for over 2 months now and I have seen HUGE results. These birds are far healthier than they have ever been. I have been using these vitamins in their water daily now and it has done wonders.

If your birds are harboring some sort of bacteria, such as in my case MS, some of these bacterias know how to hide in healthy cells, continueing their dasterdly deeds of reproducing, going completely undetected by the immune system. BUT...if you beef up the immune system, it can detect these little monsters and kill them off. The immune system of a chicken can keep many illness's at bay if it is in good shape.

 

[Haunted55]

Thanks so much for the reply. I'm sorry to hear you are having similar problems as I am. It really sucks to have to figure this stuff out!

Since I stopped the Sulmet 2 weeks ago, these birds have been on Bird Powder and vitamins with electrolites so I've got all those bases covered. And you're right, they did perk up, some more than others. I've still got 2 that are what I would consider 'sick'. The young roo is pale faced but his comb is more red than it has been. He goes out and ranges with the rest of the flock but when in their pen, he stays in the house on the roost. His wings are starting to be more down than up and he's moving slow. He pretty much stays 'fluffed' and if I didn't know better I'd swear he has Cocci. which he might for all I know. His stool is more yellow than not. Without a Vet, it's all guess work on my part.

Giving him the Baytril is not a problem for me. I mean what harm can it do now after all they have been through? The poor little guy is going to die anyways if I can't find out what is going on or hit on something accidently. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

[TwoCrows]

If the urates on the poop are yellow, generally that is some sort of liver infection, e-coli or some sort of thing there. If you have Baytril, I would get that rooster started on it.

What strength do you have? I would use alteast the 22.7 mg tabs. Give one tab in the morning, one tab in the evening. You can crush the tab and mix with baby food and squirt down the beak or even stuff 1/2 a pill in a raisin to get it down him.

A 2 week round on Baytril aught to kill anything off in him that is ailing him. If you have hard water, it is advised to use RO or distilled with Baytril as the salts and magnesium in the water bind with the Baytril making it unavailable to the bird.

Good luck!

 

[dawg53]

You're most likely dealing with blackhead as you mentioned. Chickens and turkeys should be seperated. Blackhead is a protozoa and this is most likely the culprit causing the cocci-like symptoms, that's probably the reason why the corid and sulmet arnt working. Cayenne pepper is useless with what you're dealing with. Once you get your fishzole (metronidazole)...give your sick turkeys two 250mg tablets orally of the fishzole right away, then continue with one tablet a day for the next 4 days. That should treat the blackhead. You cannot clear the ground of protozoa, it's impossible. However, the host for the protozoa can be earthworms, but more importantly the cecal worm is also a host for the protozoa. The cecal worm is in the chickens feces. This is why chickens and turkeys should be seperated. Blackhead is deadly in turkeys, as you're finding out. Now you have to kill the host carrying the protozoa...the cecal worm. I recommend using safeguard liquid goat wormer, purchased from your feed store or from Jefferslivestock. Once you're finished with metronidazole treatment, dose your turkeys orally undiluted 1cc liquid goat wormer if they are 10 pounds or less, if the are over 10 pounds, increase dosage to 1.5cc's given orally undiluted. Dose your cecal worm infected chickens as well, orally undiluted 3/4cc for large fowl, 1/2cc for standards, 1/4cc for smaller birds.
Then redose again 3 days later, then a third and final time 3 days later. In other words, you'll be dosing both turkeys and chickens 3 times within a 10 day period. There's a 14 day withdrawal period after the last dosing.

 

[Haunted55]

I do not have Baytril and can't seem to be able to get it. You need a Vet to write a perscription and as I already said, no such animal here. Right now I am trying to find something that will do the same thing. Everything here is twice as hard as it should be because there is no one to work with.

 

[TwoCrows]

Try this place,, this guy has it all...

http://www.firststatevetsupply.com/store/index.php?cPath=21_30

If Baytril is not in the budget, you could probably do well with Oxytetracycline or even Duramycin. The Oxy works well with good for many of the issues you described here. The link I provided has all these products. Go thru his antibiotic section for all the different meds.

Good luck!

 

[TwoCrows]

I would listen to Dawg....he knows what he is talking about.

 

[Haunted55]

You're most likely dealing with blackhead as you mentioned. Chickens and turkeys should be seperated. Blackhead is a protozoa and this is most likely the culprit causing the cocci-like symptoms, that's probably the reason why the corid and sulmet arnt working. Cayenne pepper is useless with what you're dealing with. Once you get your fishzole (metronidazole)...give your sick turkeys two 250mg tablets orally of the fishzole right away, then continue with one tablet a day for the next 4 days. That should treat the blackhead. You cannot clear the ground of protozoa, it's impossible. However, the host for the protozoa can be earthworms, but more importantly the cecal worm is also a host for the protozoa. The cecal worm is in the chickens feces. This is why chickens and turkeys should be seperated. Blackhead is deadly in turkeys, as you're finding out. Now you have to kill the host carrying the protozoa...the cecal worm. I recommend using safeguard liquid goat wormer, purchased from your feed store or from Jefferslivestock. Once you're finished with metronidazole treatment, dose your turkeys orally undiluted 1cc liquid goat wormer if they are 10 pounds or less, if the are over 10 pounds, increase dosage to 1.5cc's given orally undiluted. Dose your cecal worm infected chickens as well, orally undiluted 3/4cc for large fowl, 1/2cc for standards, 1/4cc for smaller birds.
Then redose again 3 days later, then a third and final time 3 days later. In other words, you'll be dosing both turkeys and chickens 3 times within a 10 day period. There's a 14 day withdrawal period after the last dosing.

Thank-you so much for the reply! The dosing you mention is per each turkey? As in I give each bird 2 of the tablets? I ask because the treatment I was given is 4 - 250mg tabs. per gal. of water for 6 - 10 days. To be honset, I like the sound of yours better. This way I know each turkey is going to get the right dosage and since they are not showing acute symptoms yet, it shouldn't be too hard on their systems.

Now for the important one, how do you give a turkey a pill? I assume it's like a dog, crush it and find something they'll eat quick before they know what you're doing?

Last, I will have the Safeguard today if I can find it, if not, order it so it will be here when the Fishzole is finished. Should the chickens be started immediately or wait so that all of the birds are shedding the dead worms at once?

Something that came to mind yesterday after I had ask my questions....I think both my chickens and turkeys were doomed no matter what I had done. My land is on the side of a hill, at the top are fields that have been spread for years with manure from Decoster Egg Farms. Since Decosters husbandry practises are and have been poor at best, there were a lot of carcases that were consumed by bear, coyotes, etc.. This land and miles around is probably so impregnated it will never be clean. The best description for the earthworms here is infestation. Great for the garden, not so good for my poor birds.

 

[Haunted55]

Try this place,, this guy has it all...

http://www.firststatevetsupply.com/store/index.php?cPath=21_30

If Baytril is not in the budget, you could probably do well with Oxytetracycline or even Duramycin. The Oxy works well with good for many of the issues you described here. The link I provided has all these products. Go thru his antibiotic section for all the different meds.

Good luck!

Thanks for the link!!! Right now the cost is a bit much but I think it might be a good thing to have so after I get all the stuff done for the Blackhead it will be the next thing I add to my med box.

I would listen to Dawg....he knows what he is talking about.

I did...I am...I will, lol. You guys are awesome! Really! Thank God for BYC. With no Vet who will see poultry and no help from the state Vet, it gets a little lonely when you run into a problem with your birds. Duramycin I always have on hand, just wan't sure if the make up of it would work in this case.