Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Haunted55]

Good to see you got here GQ! No, I have observed similar things in my birds as well. I have found there really aren't any hard and fast rules with this crap. Well there are, but not when they are first starting with it. Mine had the problems with the cocci, constantly, but the 'hunching' and greying of the eyes was a big hint with some of them. They were the ones who then went into the ocular form of it. Another sign was the chirrupping noise some would make. Not a normal sound, this I can't explain to you. It's just something you'd have to hear. Funny, the ones that started with this symptom, had paralysis of one leg, but did get better. In fact, 5 of them are still here a couple of years later. I think the place and time of year do play a part in how symptoms present. Can't prove it, but reading all the different things on here and on other threads has shown this time and again. The later symptoms do seem to follow the predicted pattern of show, but not always the same end result. Marek's is one funky little disease and you just have to find your way with it, if you choose to continue with your current flock. Just keep in mind, they don't all die. Some do recover and will go on to make perfect breeding stock for your farm. Turkeys, like I said before. I haven't had a single death in months, since my turkeys decided to move in with the chickens. I have 8 week old hatches from this year and they are going strong! No out break at all! Keep your fingers crossed! Another thing, Dark Cornish birds are pretty resistant to this. Just something to keep in mind for future breeding.

 

[seminolewind]

Haunted, a pleasure to see you on your thread once in a while!!!

I have seen/heard the beak (lip) smacking.

I've had one roo with no sign until one day I saw that his pupils were oval, not round. Yes he did waste away and die. In some I would start to notice that they would go to the bowl to eat but just pick around the outside on the ground .

Aside from having 3 adults and 10 chicks, and 4 eight month olds present paralysis, (since 2010) the rest have wasted. And my last 3 necropsies are so far negative for Marek's. This year, 1-flip over dead, 1 EYP, and 5 death from opportunistic bacteria or fungus, just lead me to think that the low immune system seems to take a front seat to Marek's as they get older.

I have been reading thru my old threads from 2009, 10 , and 11 and it was interesting to read all the times I was trying to find help because my chickens were wasting away, one by one every few months. Kind of interesting to read how many questions I had .

 

[lalaland]

Good to see you got here GQ! No, I have observed similar things in my birds as well. I have found there really aren't any hard and fast rules with this crap. Well there are, but not when they are first starting with it. Mine had the problems with the cocci, constantly, but the 'hunching' and greying of the eyes was a big hint with some of them. They were the ones who then went into the ocular form of it. Another sign was the chirrupping noise some would make. Not a normal sound, this I can't explain to you. It's just something you'd have to hear. Funny, the ones that started with this symptom, had paralysis of one leg, but did get better. In fact, 5 of them are still here a couple of years later. I think the place and time of year do play a part in how symptoms present. Can't prove it, but reading all the different things on here and on other threads has shown this time and again. The later symptoms do seem to follow the predicted pattern of show, but not always the same end result. Marek's is one funky little disease and you just have to find your way with it, if you choose to continue with your current flock. Just keep in mind, they don't all die. Some do recover and will go on to make perfect breeding stock for your farm. Turkeys, like I said before. I haven't had a single death in months, since my turkeys decided to move in with the chickens. I have 8 week old hatches from this year and they are going strong! No out break at all! Keep your fingers crossed! Another thing, Dark Cornish birds are pretty resistant to this. Just something to keep in mind for future breeding.

that is so interesting. I've heard that with someone who added turkey litter with droppings and feathers to their run - 9 years later, no further mareks as far as they can tell. I added droppings Wed to my run.

What is your experience with the ocular form - survivors? I think I read somewhere that eye color changes don't bode well for future survival.

Am keeping my fingers crossed for you.

 

[casportpony]

I have a whole bunch with the ocular form and they're okay right now (except for one, she's also paralyzed).

-Kathy

 

[KAT Bird]

As far as the actual pupil changing color or shape, I can definitely say that in my flock that has not occurred (yet?).  But I have noticed that on some, their eyes in general and their irises in particular, become a dull gray color with an almost opaque film on top, as if they had cataracts.  I usually find that the more severely clouded they look, the further along they are in the disease process.  Also interesting (well, to me at least...lol) is that I have found that I can usually predict fairly early on, and with better than average accuracy, who is going to be the next one to go down 'Misery Road'  by evaluating the way they 'hold' their eyes.  Their eyelids in particular.  Sounds strange, I know, but my talking cat and crystal ball say they believe me !!!  (Figured that by now we could all use a little levity)
Anyway, I've found that prior to their eyes ever becoming gray, the next one to become severely ill will usually have been seen 'holding' his eyelids at half mast, so to speak.  It's like they're going about their daily routine constantly squinting like it's really bright outside and they left their sunglasses back at the coop.  Like I said, sounds strange, to say the least, but then again, I've seen a lot of strange things just by observing my chickens.  And so far I've been spot on with my predictions.  Oh, and they'll oftentimes start to sit differently when they go to roost at night.  Can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is that's different about it yet, but I'm starting to think that it has something to do with the positioning of their head and crop in relation to the rest of their body.  I'll keep you all posted on my findings (which may turn out to be a stunning scientific breakthrough or perhaps just some useless drivel from an 'older' but not 'old' crazy chicken lady !!!)
Take Care All !!!
-kim-

The very first pullet of mine to develop Marek's symptoms kept one eye closed. I thought she had injured it or had something in it. It eventually developed what the vet thought was an ulcer. Then it turned cloudy. The iris never turned grey or changed shape but eventually the same thing happened to the other eye. She was blind from the cloudiness. She never became paralysed or showed any neurological symptoms. She did turn in circles but since she was blind, I often wondered if it was just her way of finding her way around. In the end she developed respiratory symptoms and we began treating her for aspergillosis. She passed from visceral tumors and secondary infections. Her necropsy did not show inflamed nerves, which you would expect to see. However, it was confirmed to be Marek's, the visceral kind rather than ocular. The eye they suspected was cloudy as a result of the fungal infection.

I purchased Trivalent Marek's vaccinated pullets and in August one developed the same cloudy eye and bumble foot. I thought the worst. I isolated her, treated the bumble foot, put her on SMZ antibiotics, daily foot soaks and antibiotic eye ointment. She recovered completely and her eye is clear.

So I try not to panic but once you have been through the horrors of Marek's every time a bird is "off" I feel like I've been punched in the gut. I keep trying to tell myself to have hope and faith.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
I know what you mean Every little sniffle gets me upset and obsessing over chicken medical books. I have not had any problems with my hatchery vaccinated chicks, but the rest seem to not have the best of immunity against opportunistic bugs. I always assumed some of my older birds wasted away due to Marek's. But it seems they waste from other ailments.

I have had one rooster that his pupil became oval, and he wasted away.

 

[Haunted55]

For me, ocular means bye-bye. I have never had one survive it.

 

[Haunted55]

Mama hen's eyes:






Not like what I'm used to seeing in Marek's here.
-Kathy

Kathy, this is what I saw here. I didn't have much with paralysis when their eyes went funky, just a slight stumble in their gait. This would then turn more grey and then the pupil would become misshapened. This was a death knell for mine. Once the changes started, the decline was very rapid. The longest I ever had one live with this was 2 weeks, from start to finish. What I've never gotten a good answer for is why the color changes. The pupil is a muscular thing, correct? The color change though...from what I understand about eye coloring, it just doesn't make sense.

 

[casportpony]

Here is my paralyzed hen. She started off wobbly and was that way for about two weeks and now she's been in a cage floundering around for another two weeks. She still manages to eat and drink, and I saw her standing yesterday, but most of the time she's on her side.

Left eye

Right eye


-Kathy

 

[mightymax]

Hi Kathy and Haunted55 -
I find it so interesting all the different forms this disease takes on !!! I just start thinking I've got a grip (albeit a slippery one) on the particular issues I'm having with my flock and then, WHAM !!!, I read about another member's chicken developing a 'new' symptom or strain! This disease is like an octopus...you cut off one arm only to find that it grows two new ones a few days later. My chickens eyes have never looked like your chickens Kathy. They've always turned to that opaque gray like Haunted55's chickens. But, like I've said, this disease is a grab bag of surprises that never ceases to amaze me! And I guess I should clarify...the chickens I've had who's eyes have gone gray have never survived...they just seem to live a little longer than the ones that get paralysis. Of course that could be because the paralyzed ones are harder for me to watch live that way, so they tend to get euthanized sooner...IDK. I just really don't !!!

On a brighter note...
here are a few pics of my 'new' babies and a couple of the now juvenile ones from a few months ago...you remember when I introduced Salt and Pepper to you all. Well, I'm now convinced that 'Salt' is a roo. and 'Pepper' is a pullet and since their individual personalities are finally shining through, I've changed their names to protect the guilty party that named them 'salt and pepper' in the first place...me...lol !!! They are now know as Socrates and Aristotle (Arie, for short). I know, I know...not much better, huh !?! Anyway, I hope you enjoy the show...


oops...pic. not in right order...this is Socrates and Arie.

the newbies...2 splash and 3 blue

brand spankin' newbie

newbies

newbie

Socrates and Arie's first dust bath

Socrates and Arie