Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[seminolewind]

Quote:
Enteritis is not contagious .

 

[seminolewind]

Hi all, first time poster. Small backyard flock of six. Four are a year and a half old girls, then I have two new pullets age 13 weeks. The new girls, crested cream leg bars, were quarantined eight weeks and introduced to the flock three weeks ago at ten weeks. No signs of disease in anyone of course. No one is vaccinated. Yesterday, one of the new leg bar babies suddenly couldn't walk. Classic presentation. After reading over 200 pages from this amazing forum, I decided to take her to the vet to confirm fears. This morning, the avian vet confirmed that she is as sure as can be without necropsy that it is Marek's. Currently, the leg bar baby is eating and drinking and acting happy but can't get around. As of today both legs seem to be affected. Also, occasionally it looks like her neck gets all squirrelly on her and she loses her head control then regains it. Soooo anyway the vet offered euthanasia or watchful waiting, but explained (as I knew from here) that the chance of full recovery is pretty small. I brought her home and have her safe in a dog crate with food and water. I was leaning towards giving her some time. The other girls have already been exposed anyway of course. That all said, I wanted to ask any of you what you thought. Looking back at what you've been through with chickens that have presented classically with leg paralysis, those of you who went the route of euthanasia or watchful waiting, what would you do differently knowing what you know now? Would you recommend going ahead and euthanizing or trying the one to two weeks of supportive care? I hate to drag out the inevitable but then again don't want to take away a chance from her if she's got a chance. Thanks for your thoughts....

Hi. Tough call. For me if they eat and drink and hold their weight, I'll give it time. If they waste away, then I end the misery. You may want to try some multi B vitamins. Sometimes lack of B vitamins can cause that.

It's sad how quick we all have gotten Marek's. I got it from 1 pullet I bought. So I do base my decision on whether they are eating or wasting.

 

[jgoldy2]

Enteritis is not contagious .

Thank you! Will register soon, anybody else going?

 

[Nambroth]

Intestinal lining shedding is a natural occurance like molting. Enteritis is a bad illness where a bacteria or cocci make swiss cheese out of the small intestine and cause it to die or hemorrhage . So, I am not an expert. But if one of my older chickens have what looks to be wasting or real skinny, I'm now trying 5 days of sulfadimethoxine and Tylan that will cover the most common nasties that most commonly that can live sub clinically (low symptoms for a long period). And worming a week prior to this.

My thoughts are that Marek's causes immunosuppression and that can allow a chicken to get sick from bacteria or cocci that they usually have immune protection against. Marek's may be a primary cause but some of the symptoms of unthriftiness can be treated.

Okay, I know you have been chatting about this elsewhere but I have been out of town so much lately that I neglected to write it down when it was fresh in my memory. Can you give me the dosages you are using for the sulfadimethoxine and Tylan treatment? I want to write it down and keep it on hand because I have a feeling you may be onto something here. If nothing else, it seems it won't hurt to try it in a bird that is otherwise going downhill with wasting.

 

[lalaland]

ok, i better clarify.

since it seems I am seeing so much more intestinal lining being shed, I am wondering if something abnormal could be happening. Since enteritis is related to damage to the intestinal walls, that leads me to consider whether it would result in increased lining being shed - again with the idea that immune suppressed chickens might be at greater risk.

I can't find anything in literature (admittedly a somewhat casual search) so I was checking here.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
Hi dear! I've used a teaspoon of sulfdimethoxine and a teaspoon of Tylan for 5-6 days. I may be on something here. I've had 3 necropsies that showed either cocci or e. coli enteritis. But I have not had a positive for c. perfigens. (sp), or maybe just not mentioned .

In lots of reading I've found that sub clinical enteritis caused by c. perfigens is one of the biggest major problems with production chicken companies because of the ban of daily antibiotics use. World wide. What the ban means is that you can not keep them on antibiotics every day until processed. But Production chickens can be given antibiotics for an illness that requires it.

Sub clinical enteritis appears as just unthrifty. Thin, not laying that much, etc. That is my problem. My chickens all got skinny. They were wormed. One hen I found sleeping all day, and took her and gave her those antibiotics. She was on my patio and started eating like a pig and it's been a month and she's still a porker. I don't know what may have been subclinical (long term unthrifiness).

Marek's causes immune suppression. I don't know if that's a long term situation or not. I've had more adults waste away than I've had chicks with paralysis. I've had a number of vaccinated-by-me chickens die from opportunistic bacteria or cocci.

I gave my oldest flock of 7 my antibiotics for 6 days that ended last week. They were wormed a month or two ago. I can't say anyone is any heavier because I"m afraid to feel them and find out. But today is the first day in over a year that their feed bowl was empty and knocked on it's side. Someone must be hungry.

In a nutshell,my hypothesis is Marek's causes immunosuppression ,and lets opportunistic cocci or bacteria (common bacteria kept in check by the immune system,) causing enteritis subclinically and just seen as unthrifyness or skinny chickens that don't lay a ton of eggs.

As Casportpony told me, there are antibiotics that would cover e. coli, and c. perfigens, and may be better to use. But the latest drug du jour for c. perfigens is Tylan, so I started there.

I am not a scientist, just tired of skinny chickens related to Marek's exposure. And started wondering how Marek's exposure in an adult chicken would cause them to waste, or is there another step in between that can be treated?

 

[seminolewind]

ok, i better clarify.

since it seems I am seeing so much more intestinal lining being shed, I am wondering if something abnormal could be happening. Since enteritis is related to damage to the intestinal walls, that leads me to consider whether it would result in increased lining being shed - again with the idea that immune suppressed chickens might be at greater risk.

I can't find anything in literature (admittedly a somewhat casual search) so I was checking here.

World Poultry is one of my sources. I did sign up. The archives had some pretty recent stuff.

Some of it is trying to guess at what ties my 3 necropsies and skinny wasting chickens together. How does it all fit. The massive problem with subclinical enteritis world wide just happened to catch my eye.

I always thought that coccidiosis was something young chickens got and then got older and more resistant. Now I know that any age chicken can get cocci in the large or small intestine. And it may or may not present itself like a youngster huddled in a corner with their eyes closed.

 

[jgoldy2]

World Poultry is one of my sources.  I did sign up. The archives had some pretty recent stuff.

Some of it is trying to guess at what ties my 3 necropsies and skinny wasting chickens together.  How does it all fit.  The massive problem with subclinical enteritis world wide just happened to catch my eye.

I always thought that coccidiosis was something young chickens got and then got older and more resistant.  Now I know that any age chicken can get cocci in the large or small intestine.  And it may or may not present itself like a youngster huddled in a corner with their eyes closed. 

Cool

 

[tridentk9]

Article on testing for Marek's on site. http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-i...ect-detection-mareks-disease-t3332/165-p0.htm
A small study but a great idea. Apparently already used for some diseases in other species as well as aspergillosis. Testing for MDV using poultry dust from fans, ceilings, etc without having to extract DNA.

 

[seminolewind]

Trident, thanks for the link.