Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[alibabba]

Dr. Reddy is awesome, he is who I took my birds to. Took me 2 1/2 hours to get there. He told me the same things he told you. I believe and trust what he told me, because he has been dealing with this virus for DECADES.

Someone asked me if I had documentation to support what I was told. I replied that I did not, only what the doctor told me. And I trust him.

This info supports what my State Avain Spec. said also.

However, as careful as you can be... Unless you are in a laboratory setting, changing and burning clothes or coveralls, true biosecurity is not possible. I will not try to spread germs. However, if a crow who has eaten corn from a mile away sheds virus 3 days later on your property....

I have become quiet cavalier. If chicks or chickens become ill, I will treat. If the\y die, they will not reproduce.

Virus must adapt so as not to kill it's host. it will eventually, or ...no more virus.

 

[lalaland]

alibabba, I have no idea about what antibiotic to ask for , for Poppy. But in the meantime, maybe try some garlic?

Susan Burke is an herbalist who writes about chicken care too - I know some scoff at herbal stuff but before synthetically produced drugs we had....herbs. And right now my 87 yr old mom who has diabetes and foot amputations is on another round of honey dressings for her foot wounds, prescribed by her doctors, because the honey is effective where the antibiotics arent.....

try reading her guest post here: www.the-chickenchick.com/2014/05/raising-chickens-naturally-garlic-with.html

 

[seminolewind]

I had a couple like that a month ago. It was cold, they were recent additions. I watched them, I gave everyone good things. All are fit and fat now. And laying daily with a day off here and there as they need to do. Except the 2 in the ICU. My gut tells me they ate something poinsonous.... The roo has had watery (and gassey) diarrhea for a while now. They both have had bright green droppings. Like statue of liberty copper penny green. Both do seem to be resolved by food, so it must be bile. But it is shockily bright....flourescent lime/mint green. The "Avain" oh my, vet was not concerned and levels of b bacteria in fecal were "within normal ranges"...normal for dogs????n On my own...I may take to state vet on Tues if they will see not just want necropsy
Quote:
I know the horrible feeling. That color green usually means starving or wasting.

I've had one in 7 years who at 8 weeks old started wing walking. She sat in my garage like a princess for a week, then I moved her to my bedroom for another 5 weeks. She started to walk again and now she's been out with the flock for 3 years. Odd things happen sometimes.

Marek's seems to most commonly attack the sciatic nerve. I've had 2 that were limping and gasping. I've had paralysis of the legs, the neck, the wings, ocular marek's, oval pupil marek's, wasting marek's (I question now), loss of peripheral vision marek's (pecking at air, not food), possible gullet marek's, loss of neck control marek's. Research has backed up the fact that there's no rhyme or reason what marek's will attack first, most commonly it's the sciatic nerves, but I think it can attack the weakest area as well. Hard to prove.

Necropsy is the best way to go.

If they are not wasting and can eat and drink, I wait longer before euthanizing.

EEE is a possibility, not common but it does occur.

You can get the antibiotics on line without a script. Tractor supply carries some. Tylan can be gotten on Amazon. Without a script. I've gotten Tylan, sulfadimethoxine, amoxicillin, penicillin, Lyncomycin-streptomycin 50, and others, syringes, needles, injectables. I have been getting at KY vet, (Foy's) Pigeon sites, livestock sites. I'm sure someone here knows other places that don't require prescriptions. Michael Apple comes to mind, Casportpony, Nambroth, and other regular posters here. I've given a 4 year old gasper Nystatin powder on a cube of bread everyday and she stopped gasping, possible Aspergillosis .

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
I think Any information members post here is valuable. Sometimes the value is in the statements and sometimes the value is in the thoughts that develop from reading the statements and the desire to learn more.

Also consider that up until backyard chicken pet owners became a very big movement, only researchers and huge chicken operations cared about what Marek's was. There were no interest groups outside that until people like us could get together and learn and pool our information. I like cited information for that reason because it personally gives me a chance to sift through it or read it myself. I've been a member here for 7 years and 7 years ago all most of us knew about Marek's was it was something that only chickens from huge companies were affected, and backyarders had nothing to worry about.

So we Are the Cutting Edge in this. Many of us know more about Marek's than our own vets because vets have a thousand illnesses to deal with, not just one like we are doing here. We are also sooo hands on about what the effects are. Outside us, the concern was called "range paralysis" and the money that companies were losing because if it.

 

[lalaland]

@seminolewind ,
I'm wondering if you ever tried just the sulfadimoxine alone - and if you just found better results with the cocktail of that and tylan? I'm balking at the $60 for the powder, and I don't want to do the injectable which is less expensive . I haven't learned to do injections yet.


although the little legbar has been looking good this past week, today she refused scrambled eggs/garlic. I wanted to put some weight on her so put her in a cage so she could eat in peace. I was surprised but she had no interest in it, or yogurt. Picked at the scratch leftover in the cage, so gave her fresh scratch and she did eat a little of that, although half the pecks were fake - mimicing the motion but not eating.

Anyway, I will keep her in the kennel until I can check her droppings. Am considering the cocktail....

You can see by her eyes, I think, that she isn't great.



edited to add update: after I left her alone for awhile to see if she would eat on her own, (she didn't) I came back and checked her crop. It was not packed, but fuller than it should have been given what she ate. She did have one watery dropping with some dark green solid.

I think her digestive system is shutting down?

I think she is exactly where she was a week ago, except no intestinal lining in the dropping.

 

[ochochicas]

So we Are the Cutting Edge in this. Many of us know more about Marek's than our own vets because vets have a thousand illnesses to deal with, not just one like we are doing here. We are also sooo hands on about what the effects are. Outside us, the concern was called "range paralysis" and the money that companies were losing because if it.

Amen to that! I asked my vet if she knew the best place to buy chicken vaccines. Her response was, "What do you need to vaccinate your chicks for?"

I do believe we are Cutting Edge. Anything we can learn or disprove (prove) will help others battle the virus in the future.

I had a hen die at 11 months from Marek's. She came to my farm as a chick and wasn't exposed until she was 6+ months old, so I know from experience it can infect older pullets. One of her sisters died from neurological problems, and the others seem to be resistant or immune.

 

[seminolewind]

@seminolewind ,
I'm wondering if you ever tried just the sulfadimoxine alone - and if you just found better results with the cocktail of that and tylan? I'm balking at the $60 for the powder, and I don't want to do the injectable which is less expensive . I haven't learned to do injections yet.


although the little legbar has been looking good this past week, today she refused scrambled eggs/garlic. I wanted to put some weight on her so put her in a cage so she could eat in peace. I was surprised but she had no interest in it, or yogurt. Picked at the scratch leftover in the cage, so gave her fresh scratch and she did eat a little of that, although half the pecks were fake - mimicing the motion but not eating.

Anyway, I will keep her in the kennel until I can check her droppings. Am considering the cocktail....

You can see by her eyes, I think, that she isn't great.



edited to add update: after I left her alone for awhile to see if she would eat on her own, (she didn't) I came back and checked her crop. It was not packed, but fuller than it should have been given what she ate. She did have one watery dropping with some dark green solid.

I think her digestive system is shutting down?

I think she is exactly where she was a week ago, except no intestinal lining in the dropping.

I know what you mean about the price of Tylan! I've always liked sulfadimethoxine because it kills cocci and it's also an antibiotic. However there are a few antibiotics that kill Clostridium, one is Tylan, Amoxicillin (cheaper), Tetracycline, and Bacitracin. I just happened to have Tylan on hand and it kills clostridium and no one ever had a respiratory ailment so it was there.

The other thing is that cocci can predispose a chicken to Enteritis.

 

[seminolewind]

@seminolewind ,
I'm wondering if you ever tried just the sulfadimoxine alone - and if you just found better results with the cocktail of that and tylan? I'm balking at the $60 for the powder, and I don't want to do the injectable which is less expensive . I haven't learned to do injections yet.


although the little legbar has been looking good this past week, today she refused scrambled eggs/garlic. I wanted to put some weight on her so put her in a cage so she could eat in peace. I was surprised but she had no interest in it, or yogurt. Picked at the scratch leftover in the cage, so gave her fresh scratch and she did eat a little of that, although half the pecks were fake - mimicing the motion but not eating.

Anyway, I will keep her in the kennel until I can check her droppings. Am considering the cocktail....

You can see by her eyes, I think, that she isn't great.



edited to add update: after I left her alone for awhile to see if she would eat on her own, (she didn't) I came back and checked her crop. It was not packed, but fuller than it should have been given what she ate. She did have one watery dropping with some dark green solid.

I think her digestive system is shutting down?

I think she is exactly where she was a week ago, except no intestinal lining in the dropping.

Yea, that's a sign I've seen a few times, pecking at food but not connecting. I would def. try the antibiotics. You have nothing to lose.
Yes, I've seen the digestive system appear to shut down. In the beginning, I thought there were chickens that were keeping a waster away from the food! The the wasting chicken would not even eat out of the feeder if she was alone, but just peck the ground around the feeder. Like she wanted to eat but couldn't. I've seen that quite a bit in the past. I could not figure out why they weren't eating. Now I wonder if antibiotics could have saved them. Sometimes between Marek's symptoms and illness symptoms , there isn't any difference.

 

[alibabba]

alibabba, I have no idea about what antibiotic to ask for , for Poppy. But in the meantime, maybe try some garlic?

Susan Burke is an herbalist who writes about chicken care too - I know some scoff at herbal stuff but before synthetically produced drugs we had....herbs. And right now my 87 yr old mom who has diabetes and foot amputations is on another round of honey dressings for her foot wounds, prescribed by her doctors, because the honey is effective where the antibiotics arent.....

try reading her guest post here: www.the-chickenchick.com/2014/05/raising-chickens-naturally-garlic-with.html

I read too that honey is an amazing antibiotic, it kills the bugs that pharmaceutical antibiotics don't make a dent in. Raw honey. pasteurized does not have the effect. Garlic too? Onions are good for as I read someplace "escorting anyting toxic out of the body" I read years ago, that an onion can cure an ear infection (humans).

I also just read peanut butter is good for chelation (bonding to heavy metals to remove them from the system). I'm not sure I want to give sick chickens peanut butter straight. Mix with something? Water it down?

I read alot lately....

 

[Akrnaf2]

I read too that honey is an amazing antibiotic, it kills the bugs that pharmaceutical antibiotics don't make a dent in.  Raw honey.  pasteurized does not have the effect.   Garlic too?  Onions are good for as I read someplace "escorting anyting toxic out of the body"  I read years ago, that an onion can cure an ear infection (humans).  

I also just read peanut butter is  good for chelation (bonding to heavy metals to remove them from the system).  I'm not sure I want to give sick chickens peanut butter straight.  Mix with something?  Water it down?  

I read alot lately....

Honey contains Hydrogen peroxide which is the main mechanism of his damage in bacteria. Hydrogen peroxide is not an antibiotic because it is a Bacteriocidic (=kills on the spot, by contact, its damage the cell membrane of cells) this make it a disinfectant and not an antibiotic! Antibiotics are chemicals that damages Bacteria by being Bacteriostatics (= interfere in the Bacterium metabolism, interfering which can causes death in the end, they don't immediately kills) They usually are derived from materials produced by organisms such as fungi, bacteria and Actinomycetes.