Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Gemski]

It is very much buyer beware when it comes to animals. I've met some truly beautiful people through animals, many who I now class as friends.
If I get a gut feeling I walk away, I'm usually spot on too. But this lady pulled the wool over my eyes! Big house, husband is an exec, they have cleaners, holidays many times a year! Then the whole " I've worked with the RSPCA for over twenty years " made me think, maybe she really is as nice as she seems. And if they pay for the holidays they do, then surely they give their animals the best right? Wrong!!!
We saw her set up, not spotless but no reason to be suspicious.
It was after the first meeting when things started to raise doubt about her true motives. She had some beautiful doves, which she promised we could buy nice they were fledged. She developed this un canny ability to predict which dove/s would be picked off by "Mr Hawk"
She had a dove cote and an an aviary. We purchased birds from the aviary, so thought nothing of it.
It was her total lack of remorse or even care that the birds we brought home were sick and dying. We've kept birds for years and always check for vitality, brightness of eyes, ruffled feathers overall health. These birds she'd caught up for when we got there all looked very healthy, it wasn't until later that evening one looked ruffled and clearly not happy. It spiralled from there. They were our wedding anniversary present to each other.
The hen that died, died in my daughters hands, she's 15 and was sobbing. It really upset her. The minute I checked in it's beak I knew what was wrong. Confirmed by the vet.
I like to believe that everyone treats animals with the love and respect we do, I also try not to see the worst in people ( not easy at the best of times ) when people come to mine to buy, I have nothing to hide. I answer all questions asked.
Having said that, we are aware of bird theft, and the rate that it's growing at. So if I feel someone isnt quite right, that gut feeling we are very careful showing them round. We also let people know someone is home 24/7 husband works nights, two daughters one who also works. And myself who's home pretty much all the time ( the animals and home is a job in itself ) wouldn't change it for anything.
It's just a shame there's the few out there amongst the many who care not for the animals but for pure profit. Any birds we sell, every penny goes back in to upkeep, food, any supplies needed. It's a passion for us, luckily both myself and my husband love it. My husband is a very good judge of character this lady even managed to pull one over on him too. She even said, that she would replace every dead bird with new ones. To which I replied " why would I take more sick and dying birds " I've been told to report her, but as she has worked with the RSPCA would the complaints be taken seriously???

 

[Haunted55]

In regards to whether or not you'd be taken seriously, I would think it would depend on how it was presented to someone there, how high up the ladder they were and whether or not she was ever really involved with them. It would seem to me that her comments on working with the RSPCA for 20 years is suspect. A passing comment maybe, but I get the impression it was more than that. Why would you do that? Sounds a lot like what I add to my garden to get my plants to grow.

Anyone can work with the RSPCA or the SPCA here. Making donations would be working for them. Volunteering to clean cages is also working for them. See where I'm going with this? She has already proven she has no conscience, I would figure that would most likely cover anything she does, not just her selling of sick birds.

 

[Nambroth]

Well, we got the tests back this evening and my girl tested positive for Marek's. Here's my question now to all of you.

I'm moving in 4 weeks. My husband has built me a new coop that hasn't been used yet by any of my birds. I know with certainty my 3 remaining adults have not been vaccinated for Marek's, and have been exposed. I'm pretty sure that the 5 three month old chicks I have were vaccinated, but since I bought them from my local feed store a few months ago, I'm not sure I can find out for sure.

If I put all my chickens down, and start all over I can do it with out bringing Marek's to my new place. It will be a sad day. If I keep my old coop, and put the chicks who I think were vaccinated in them, and place them at one end of my acre, and then get new chicks (vaccinated) and put them in the new coop, could that mean a possibly Marek's free environment. Is there such a thing? Should I bother putting down healthy looking chickens?

What would you do?

I'm sorry you have to go through this. I am no expert but like others in this thread have done a lot of independent research so that I can know how to deal with this nasty disease now that I have it.

There are a lot of maybe's in your scenario. If you find out the chicks have been vaccinated (and, be sure-- I have had feed stores lie about this before) then they will probably survive okay, but they may or may not be shedding the virus-- even if they have not been with the adult birds (one of which tested positive after it died, right?) the chances of you carrying it to them on your clothing, hair, shoes, etc... are pretty high. You can consider them "exposed" even if they weren't in contact with your older birds, unless you took great precaution each time you passed from one group to another since you brought them home.

The above scenario is why I personally would not consider a property that has Marek's positive (or potential Marek's carrying) birds on it "Marek's Free", even if coops are separated. You'd have to have nearly clean-room like conditions each time you moved from your old coop to the new one to prevent the spread. Simple washing up in-between isn't enough.

Then there is the fact that it can come in from the wind, wild birds, mice.. whatever! It's so very hard to know sometimes how it makes its way around and why or how certain birds get it and others do not.

I would just carefully consider what your plans for your birds are. If you hope to breed and sell chickens... well, you can't do that with Marek's in your flock, at least not responsibly. If you just want some egg laying birds/pets, then that is a different situation. This is a tough decision and overall depends on what you think you might like to do with your chickens long-term and what lengths you are willing to go through, even knowing that there is always a chance that you'll end up with Marek's on your property anyhow.

Best wishes, truly!

 

[seminolewind]

Well, we got the tests back this evening and my girl tested positive for Marek's. Here's my question now to all of you.

I'm moving in 4 weeks. My husband has built me a new coop that hasn't been used yet by any of my birds. I know with certainty my 3 remaining adults have not been vaccinated for Marek's, and have been exposed. I'm pretty sure that the 5 three month old chicks I have were vaccinated, but since I bought them from my local feed store a few months ago, I'm not sure I can find out for sure.

If I put all my chickens down, and start all over I can do it with out bringing Marek's to my new place. It will be a sad day. If I keep my old coop, and put the chicks who I think were vaccinated in them, and place them at one end of my acre, and then get new chicks (vaccinated) and put them in the new coop, could that mean a possibly Marek's free environment. Is there such a thing? Should I bother putting down healthy looking chickens?

What would you do?

It would not be a tough choice for me , I would just keep my old birds. I'm very attached to them.
You have to assume all your birds are exposed to Marek's and carry it. The vaccinated ones and maybe others that are resistant will most likely not die from Marek's symptoms.

I don't know how difficult it would be to sanitize all your equipment and stuff. It's the chicken dust/dander that carries it. Like Haunted , keeping it clean cuts down on the concentration of viral dust.

Even if your next home is Marek's free, there will always be risk of getting it. So all your new chicks will come vaccinated or will be vaccinated day one if they are not. Keeping them separate is a good thing, at least as long as you can. I do 6-10 weeks.

If you plan on selling chicks, it's a matter of incubating the eggs and keeping the chicks in a clean room in the house until sold. Not a room where you had a sick chicken. I also washed my hands up to my elbows and put a long shirt or apron on when entering. My chicken shoes are outside. And eggs don't carry it, so you can sell eggs.

So either way will make a difference. Right now my flock is older resistant birds and younger vaccinated birds. And I have 2 batches that are from my resistant chickens and not vaccinated because 2 years ago, my Marek's birds had chicks that didn't die from Marek's.

 

[ten chicks]

It is very much buyer beware when it comes to animals. I've met some truly beautiful people through animals, many who I now class as friends.
If I get a gut feeling I walk away, I'm usually spot on too. But this lady pulled the wool over my eyes! Big house, husband is an exec, they have cleaners, holidays many times a year! Then the whole " I've worked with the RSPCA for over twenty years " made me think, maybe she really is as nice as she seems. And if they pay for the holidays they do, then surely they give their animals the best right? Wrong!!!
We saw her set up, not spotless but no reason to be suspicious.
It was after the first meeting when things started to raise doubt about her true motives. She had some beautiful doves, which she promised we could buy nice they were fledged. She developed this un canny ability to predict which dove/s would be picked off by "Mr Hawk"
She had a dove cote and an an aviary. We purchased birds from the aviary, so thought nothing of it.
It was her total lack of remorse or even care that the birds we brought home were sick and dying. We've kept birds for years and always check for vitality, brightness of eyes, ruffled feathers overall health. These birds she'd caught up for when we got there all looked very healthy, it wasn't until later that evening one looked ruffled and clearly not happy. It spiralled from there. They were our wedding anniversary present to each other.
The hen that died, died in my daughters hands, she's 15 and was sobbing. It really upset her. The minute I checked in it's beak I knew what was wrong. Confirmed by the vet.
I like to believe that everyone treats animals with the love and respect we do, I also try not to see the worst in people ( not easy at the best of times ) when people come to mine to buy, I have nothing to hide. I answer all questions asked.
Having said that, we are aware of bird theft, and the rate that it's growing at. So if I feel someone isnt quite right, that gut feeling we are very careful showing them round. We also let people know someone is home 24/7 husband works nights, two daughters one who also works. And myself who's home pretty much all the time ( the animals and home is a job in itself ) wouldn't change it for anything.
It's just a shame there's the few out there amongst the many who care not for the animals but for pure profit. Any birds we sell, every penny goes back in to upkeep, food, any supplies needed. It's a passion for us, luckily both myself and my husband love it. My husband is a very good judge of character this lady even managed to pull one over on him too. She even said, that she would replace every dead bird with new ones. To which I replied " why would I take more sick and dying birds " I've been told to report her, but as she has worked with the RSPCA would the complaints be taken seriously???

Yes,i would report her. You have nothing to lose,your birds are sick any dying. I agree with Haunted,why would she point out that she is/has been involved with RSPCA? Sounds like she is feeling a little guilty about something. I learned long ago never, ever, assume(makes an *** out of u and me) anything,this saying has proven true several times. Go and report this unscrupulous person,she may have already been reported.

 

[casportpony]

Just a quick comment on Canker... I spoke with the avian pathologist at UC Davis and he said that Canker is rare in chickens and that in the last ten years he has only seen two cases of it.

-Kathy

 

[Gemski]

Just a quick comment on Canker... I spoke with the avian pathologist at UC Davis and he said that Canker is rare in chickens and that in the last ten years he has only seen two cases of it.

-Kathy

Until these doves, I'd never encountered Kanker, kept birds for years. Laughing doves, diamond doves, chickens, pheasants and several breeds of quail and never EVER had anything like it.
I did speak with my vet, who advised not to share undisinfect bowls and feeders from the doves to any of my birds that it can be transmitted through saliva I.e drinking water, dropped feed, feeding between pairs and parent to squabs.
We kept a very tight regime when feeding the aviaries and flights, and always left the doves until last so we didn't spill water on shoes then walking through flights, or stepping on spilt feed again walking this through. Some might say this was extreme. However it worked for us and only the birds from this lady were Ill or died. The PMV was very worrying dependant on which strain Patrick carried. Fortunately as he was kept separate he did not pass on this awful disease/infection. Unless you've witnessed first hand just how bad it can be, you can't imagine it. His poor head was always either over lying flat to his back with his head facing behind him, or it was twisted under him, he looked as though he had no head, his eating was so sad to watch. Sometimes he'd have half an hour where he looked normal, but always ended up twisted with no ability to straighten out properly, he lost the use on his legs, within an hour of having him I knew he was not brain damaged. So put in pigeon star gazing, suspicion confirmed by the vet who advised euthanising him.
Luckily we practise quarantining birds, we usually quarantine aviary birds for 2-4 weeks. Doves and pigeons I will always quarantine for at least 6 weeks now due to this.
It wasn't until having Canker and thoroughly reading up, it's shocking just what be them birds, mammals even plants can get the canker virus. We were so worried we'd lose most of our birds through slipped hygiene. The worry watching all the birds very closely. what upset us the most, was seeing the birds themselves, made me feel very strong negative feelings towards this lady who claimed to be doing it for love not profit.

 

[Haunted55]

Until these doves, I'd never encountered Kanker, kept birds for years. Laughing doves, diamond doves, chickens, pheasants and several breeds of quail and never EVER had anything like it.
I did speak with my vet, who advised not to share undisinfect bowls and feeders from the doves to any of my birds that it can be transmitted through saliva I.e drinking water, dropped feed, feeding between pairs and parent to squabs.
We kept a very tight regime when feeding the aviaries and flights, and always left the doves until last so we didn't spill water on shoes then walking through flights, or stepping on spilt feed again walking this through. Some might say this was extreme. However it worked for us and only the birds from this lady were Ill or died. The PMV was very worrying dependant on which strain Patrick carried. Fortunately as he was kept separate he did not pass on this awful disease/infection. Unless you've witnessed first hand just how bad it can be, you can't imagine it. His poor head was always either over lying flat to his back with his head facing behind him, or it was twisted under him, he looked as though he had no head, his eating was so sad to watch. Sometimes he'd have half an hour where he looked normal, but always ended up twisted with no ability to straighten out properly, he lost the use on his legs, within an hour of having him I knew he was not brain damaged. So put in pigeon star gazing, suspicion confirmed by the vet who advised euthanising him.
Luckily we practise quarantining birds, we usually quarantine aviary birds for 2-4 weeks. Doves and pigeons I will always quarantine for at least 6 weeks now due to this.
It wasn't until having Canker and thoroughly reading up, it's shocking just what be them birds, mammals even plants can get the canker virus. We were so worried we'd lose most of our birds through slipped hygiene. The worry watching all the birds very closely. what upset us the most, was seeing the birds themselves, made me feel very strong negative feelings towards this lady who claimed to be doing it for love not profit.

Wow! I've never seen Canker and had no idea what the disease actually was. More reading to do, lol. The symptoms sound a lot like Marek's so yeah, I am going to read up on this. What an awful thing to have seen this poor thing go through. I don't think you're extreme with the care you take either.

 

[casportpony]

Canker (trichomoniasis) can be treated with metronidazole (Flagyl, fish-zole) 30mg/kg by mouth for five days. It's a Protozoa, I think, not a virus. I also think that it is more common in pigeons and doves.

-Kathy

 

[Haunted55]

Update on 1 group of the new chicks. They are now almost 5 weeks old, have been on medicated feed the whole time they have been here, are vaccinated with the MD-Vac. Today I noticed signs of coccidiosis and have started treating with liquid Corid and non-medicated feed. this is the group I have been brooding in a 6' quick set swimming pool. I have had to strengthen and raise the height of the walls with 2 rolls of hardware cloth as these little buggers are constantly getting out for walk-a-bout. Can we say Ma and Pa Kettle? Jeesh! Today I am adding deer fencing over the top so there will be no more AWOLs. I think this is how they got it. Husband can be a little lacking when it comes to changing his boots before coming into the house. With the wet and now the heat....it was prime. I am hoping this isn't something else showing up.

The other group of birds received a week later were vaccinated with all 3 Mareks vaccines and also have been on medicated feed from the beginning. Two of them have gotten out of their brooder and have been running with the others. No signs of cocci in this brooder...yet. I do have a problem or what I think is a problem with one of these chicks. Her breathing almost sounds like light snoring. No other signs of any illness. If I hadn't had to pick her up and heard her breathing, I never would have known. Before I give any antibiotic I am going to try some VetRX on her beak overnight. I know that right now my allergies are in overdrive. The pine pollen is thick this year and with this heat and humidity, it's really bad. It doesn't sound like lungs, it sounds like it's the beak area. [Listening to her chest, there's nothing.] I am hoping it's a sinus thing and not an infection or disease.