Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[ochochicas]

My chicks are double vaccinated. They get the first vaccine at 1 or 2 days and the second at 28 days. My chicks that are 2 weeks old will only be vaccinated once though. It is all part of my vaccine experiment. Of course i won't have a "control group" but I currently have 18 vaccinated chicks from 6 - 20 weeks that are in with Marek's flock and we'll just see how it goes.

 

[jak2002003]

Thanks for all the advise people.

He is still doing really well.... So long as he can get to the food and water...fly up to roost and is crowing and acting alert.. then I will let him be...

As soon as I see him loosing condition or acting like he is distressed.. I will know its time.

 

[seminolewind]

One of my Crevecoeurs is down. Went to the back pen and she was on the ground with both legs behind her. Paralysis in both, no sign yesterday.

She got 60 ml of water right away, and antibiotics-just in case. Of what? I don't know. This is the second one from M mc M last year that was supposedly vaccinated. The first was confirmed Marek's. Last year, they got a pen that had never been used at the very end of the other pens.

 

[SilkieNation]

I am sorry for everyone's losses. It's all very sad. My tiny flock seems to be infected. I put my rooster down about two weeks ago and the necropsy, which took forever, indicated lymphoma (around his liver)

I am wondering if anyone has ever had birds survive visceral Marek's, which is what my girls have if the vets are right about my dear, 9-year old roo. I didn't even realize he was sick until he lost a ton of weight. I know that Marek's is not common in birds his age, but I believe a stress event may have activated the latent virus as I did have a sick bird who died some year's back and I bet it was Marek's. I also had a young hen die suddenly over night for no apparent reason. Perhaps it's been in my flock since I first brought home the chicks nine years ago.

My three little silkie hens, who I just brought home in March, have not been laying or eating much for almost a month. Although they've lost weight, they are not emaciated yet - I've been trying all sorts of things in terms of food and I guess they are getting some down. Willing to try anything, I've been giving them hypericum for the past three days. They ate today and there was lots (relative) of poop around to clean up for a change. If they continue to eat and improve, then I may become less skeptical about this homeopathic medicine. But, if they have tumors already, then I'm not sure anything will help them.

Does anyone have any experience with this type of Marek's and survival?

 

[seminolewind]

I am sorry for everyone's losses. It's all very sad. My tiny flock seems to be infected. I put my rooster down about two weeks ago and the necropsy, which took forever, indicated lymphoma (around his liver)

I am wondering if anyone has ever had birds survive visceral Marek's, which is what my girls have if the vets are right about my dear, 9-year old roo. I didn't even realize he was sick until he lost a ton of weight. I know that Marek's is not common in birds his age, but I believe a stress event may have activated the latent virus as I did have a sick bird who died some year's back and I bet it was Marek's. I also had a young hen die suddenly over night for no apparent reason. Perhaps it's been in my flock since I first brought home the chicks nine years ago.

My three little silkie hens, who I just brought home in March, have not been laying or eating much for almost a month. Although they've lost weight, they are not emaciated yet - I've been trying all sorts of things in terms of food and I guess they are getting some down. Willing to try anything, I've been giving them hypericum for the past three days. They ate today and there was lots (relative) of poop around to clean up for a change. If they continue to eat and improve, then I may become less skeptical about this homeopathic medicine. But, if they have tumors already, then I'm not sure anything will help them.

Does anyone have any experience with this type of Marek's and survival?

We have all read/heard/experienced all types of outcomes. I did have one vaccinated pullet have paralysis at 8 weeks and walk again at 14 weeks. But she ate a lot the whole time. Most of mine have become paralyzed usually before a year old. Chances are chickens with Marek's tumors do not survive. Chances are good that your 9 year old roo did not have Marek's tumors but some other type of tumor.
I am finding with my flock that those who live past a year (most not all) if they get sick, it's been from an opportunistic infection. Some infection like even cocci that they should have been resistant to with age, but Marek's has suppressed their immune system and they are ill with something that may be treatable.

I think it's a good thing to try anything to treat Marek's even Hypericum. Without people trying things, we never learn anything. With your silkies, try giving them a wet mash every day. Mix their feed with water and make a mush. Most or all of mine can not resist it. Mine were born in March and are still too young to lay, and even with full crops, do feel bony like they need to be fattened up. I think maybe it's a phase of growth. So make the mush and make sure their water is nice and cool.

Birds die for all types of reasons. Marek's isn't the only tumor or cancer ailment that they can get. If one or more of your silkies comes down with leg paralysis, I would say your flock has Marek's. Otherwise, I don't see anything that specifically points to Mareks'.

 

[SilkieNation]

Thank you for your response seminolewind. I'm glad to hear that you don't think it's Marek's. Dawg53 says you know a lot about Marek's! Still, I'm not sure it isn't and something is amiss. One thing I find strange is that I have three hens, and their symptoms all coincide with each other. Can this happen, that all birds will present with the same symptoms at the same time?? The vet I spoke with about the necropsy results said that the tumors they found in my roo are what they see with Marek's. He wasn't the avian vet (out of town) and I will talk with him next week. Is there not a blood test that I can have done on my hens? Do you know what a polymerase chain reaction test is? Is this something I can have done?

I have to say that other than the eating, which was pretty good again today (of course they won't touch dry feed, must be mixed with all sorts of good stuff...), the laying, which has ceased, and some gaping at night when they get warm, they've been active and happy, especially for the past two days. I let them free range (as I watch the skies) and they were scratching, catching bugs, flapping their wings. They felt great today. Do Marek's symptoms ever come and go? Perhaps the hypericum is effective for them on nerve pain? This is what it is sold to do for humans.

 

[seminolewind]

Thank you for your response seminolewind. I'm glad to hear that you don't think it's Marek's. Dawg53 says you know a lot about Marek's! Still, I'm not sure it isn't and something is amiss. One thing I find strange is that I have three hens, and their symptoms all coincide with each other. Can this happen, that all birds will present with the same symptoms at the same time?? The vet I spoke with about the necropsy results said that the tumors they found in my roo are what they see with Marek's. He wasn't the avian vet (out of town) and I will talk with him next week. Is there not a blood test that I can have done on my hens? Do you know what a polymerase chain reaction test is? Is this something I can have done?

I have to say that other than the eating, which was pretty good again today (of course they won't touch dry feed, must be mixed with all sorts of good stuff...), the laying, which has ceased, and some gaping at night when they get warm, they've been active and happy, especially for the past two days. I let them free range (as I watch the skies) and they were scratching, catching bugs, flapping their wings. They felt great today. Do Marek's symptoms ever come and go? Perhaps the hypericum is effective for them on nerve pain? This is what it is sold to do for humans.

Sometimes I just don't know what to think! My current hen that had total leg paralysis yesterday is now standing . If it's Marek's there is nothing I can do to change what will happen. But I'm still going to treat for dehydration and malnutrition, possible Vitamin B deficiency, possible chronic intestinal problems needing antibiotics and anti-cocci.

Texas A&M does pcr testing on a blood samples. PCR is when they take a small amount of dna and scientifically increase the amount present. Blood from a live chicken. However, testing blood for Marek's may or may not be accurate because it can only tell you if the chicken has been exposed to Marek's . To get an accurate test, you have to have tumors that look like Marek's tumors, a histology exam to see if there are microscopic tumors, and pcr testing. If all are positive, it tells the pathologist that the chicken has Marek's tumors and has died most likely from the tumors.

I still don't think that a nine year old roo died from Marek's tumors, I think it's more likely that his tumors are related to something else. There are many different types of tumors, think of all the different cancers in humans.

Silkie hens are not known to be great layers. When they are broody they may not lay for months!. Especially when it's hot. And on warm nights are they gaping or just warm and panting? What does the poo look like? Have they laid any eggs?

If you brought these 3 silkies into contact with supposed Marek's at your home, and they are now 16 weeks old and not suffering from paralysis, I would not be looking for trouble, LOL. And I don't believe in hypericum.

I wasn't having good laying in my flock and I switched them from 16% protein to 18% protein and they have been laying nicely for months now. But my 10 silkies born in March are still too young to lay I think.

 

[SilkieNation]

Sometimes I just don't know what to think! My current hen that had total leg paralysis yesterday is now standing . If it's Marek's there is nothing I can do to change what will happen. But I'm still going to treat for dehydration and malnutrition, possible Vitamin B deficiency, possible chronic intestinal problems needing antibiotics and anti-cocci.

Texas A&M does pcr testing on a blood samples. PCR is when they take a small amount of dna and scientifically increase the amount present. Blood from a live chicken. However, testing blood for Marek's may or may not be accurate because it can only tell you if the chicken has been exposed to Marek's . To get an accurate test, you have to have tumors that look like Marek's tumors, a histology exam to see if there are microscopic tumors, and pcr testing. If all are positive, it tells the pathologist that the chicken has Marek's tumors and has died most likely from the tumors.

I still don't think that a nine year old roo died from Marek's tumors, I think it's more likely that his tumors are related to something else. There are many different types of tumors, think of all the different cancers in humans.

Silkie hens are not known to be great layers. When they are broody they may not lay for months!. Especially when it's hot. And on warm nights are they gaping or just warm and panting? What does the poo look like? Have they laid any eggs?

If you brought these 3 silkies into contact with supposed Marek's at your home, and they are now 16 weeks old and not suffering from paralysis, I would not be looking for trouble, LOL. And I don't believe in hypericum.

I wasn't having good laying in my flock and I switched them from 16% protein to 18% protein and they have been laying nicely for months now. But my 10 silkies born in March are still too young to lay I think.

I see. So I would have to have a histology exam, not sure they even kept the tumors and I'm not digging my roo up! I guess I never mentioned, but my hens are about 1.5 -2+ years old. I didn't buy them as chicks. One never laid and I'm not sure the breeder believed me, or thought I could be sure, but I was pretty sure. One went broody, but is back now and had stopped laying a couple of weeks before. And one stopped for no reason. They've not laid one egg for about six weeks.

Their poo - pretty dark, even blackish, but I feed them some blueberries everyday, not a lot, and I've thought this is the reason. I don't know if this is significant. Some look great form-wise, some have watery urates with broken up solids, some brownish diareha, although only now and then. Fecals on my roo and on a combined hen both were negative - for everything including giardia.

They were gaping for sure, but were not tonight. When they were, however, they were doing it for minutes at a time, not just a few times. They may do it every now and then otherwise.

They are on 18% protein with oyster shell free choice, but I was getting them some layer tomorrow (today).

And I have never believed much in homeopathic medicine, but there was a change in eating three days in. This may be coincidence for sure, but it is what happened. Like I said, they are not acting as if they are sick. I think your silkies are too young to lay, yes.

 

[lalaland]

all of my flock are gaping/panting at night. It is hot and muggy, and definitely heat related here. maybe 80 in the coop. The ee's especially seem vulnerable to the heat.

I have two hens gurgling with their breathing. THey are both between 5-6 years old, so I am doubtful it is mareks, even though they have been exposed, obviously. Don't know if it is the weather - it has been hazy with smoke from canadian wildfires for days now.

I think everyone is holding their own for now. I think it has been about two months since I've had to cull anyone for mareks. I have some two year olds that seem mighty skinny, but have almost softball sized crops at night, so they are surely eating.

its been the worst spring for broodies, there has been a broody hen or two in lockup for almost 3 months straight now. The sad thing is that with mareks in my flock, I can't let them hatch unless I have room for the chicks to be added to the flock, since I can't sell or give away the babies.

 

[seminolewind]

Yea, Marek's sure puts a damper on broody chicks. And I have to do the same thing. Have to have room to keep all of a hatch. Lala, I'm doing a lot of treating my chickens for opportunistic microbes caused by Marek's immunosuppression. So far so good. Now I've added B vitamins because wasting can mean not absorbing food and vitamin B.

My Creve decided to walk today. If not Marek's paralysis, could be malnutrition, malabsorbsion of Vitamin B2 and B12 which does affect the nerves, r/t damage in the small intestine caused by infection. My Creve actually ran away from me. I hope this is a permanent turn around.

Karen