Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[ochochicas]

I'm not saying PBS isn't a reliable source, but the article seems to try to elicit more of a "scare factor" to its audience rather than present new information. None of its sources are sited in the article. I'm now wondering if anyone has the article that shows how they determined the birds are still infected with the virus but it doesn't develop tumors and does not kill them. I do have a very strong science background and would love to read the information.

All that I have read states the virus needs 3 weeks to replicate in the body before it starts to attack the chicken's nervous system. It takes another 3 weeks (minimum) for the virus to damage the chicken's body enough for it to become sick or start showing signs of illness. This is why chicks that are exposed to the virus during the first week of life don't get sick until they are between 6 and 12 weeks, or even older. An extremely virulent strain could possibly do its work faster, but I don't see any evidence how it could kill all chickens within 10 days of being exposed.

Farmers have been keeping turkeys with their chickens for decades in order for their chickens to build some immunity from the turkey strain of Marek's. This is the model the vaccine was based off. I also think that as the virus evolves (as is implied in the article) the vaccine will evolve right along with it. Vaccine companies already know there is a demand for better vaccines that are more consumer friendly. They will put their research where the money is.

 

[seminolewind]

Well I always had faith in Consumer Reports until they wrote this article about electronic vaping devices (e-cigarettes). I've been knee deep into the politics and educational aspects of them for 7 years, and I've read hundreds of articles written by anyone and can tell that they wrote their article on heresay, not facts. I wrote the editor a letter about it and I got one of those canned thankyous. You would think they would be honorable about writing about the facts and the unknowns and lack of evidence, and even the lies told.

So I don't proscribe to that rag anymore. They are not stand up people like they say they are. Even the NY Times wrote an article about exactly what's known and what isn't and what's just plain BS.

I have found that World Poultry and Engormix seem to have prettyvalid information. Probably because that's where the research money is going. I think that some of the articles on the web are actually papers written by students, LOL. like a thesis. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, just has to expound on some theory.

So, Ocho, we on this thread are the very few laypeople in the world that have so much knowledge about Marek's. And from what we know I think we can see when someone is just writing a stupid article that makes a "what if" sounds like "Eureka, it's true!"

So it's kind of funny when you realize that you know enough to see if someone else is knowledgeable or just pretending to be.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:

I don't think there's any way to know when marek's started. It was first recognized around 1900. The first vaccine was about 1970's (?)
Most of the time trouble starts when a number of species are kept in tighter quarters. Like production houses. I would like to know if anyone graphed out the highs and lows of deaths over 100 years. Or wrote about problems 40-50-60-80 years ago.

 

[BeccaNoble]

Hello! Another Marek's case in denial here. We just moved into a house that came with a very sick chicken. We didn't think she would make it, I somehow nursed her back to health. She spent a few days not leaving her cubby, I started bringing her outside every morning and putting her back every night. She couldn't walk, she would use her wings to balance herself, now she's up and walking and eating and completely better. So a couple months ago we got one month old chicks and now one of them seems to have come down with Marek's. Can't walk or stand, laying with one leg straight back and one straight forward... It's heartbreaking, she's so tiny compared to the rest. Do chickens ever get over Marek's? The first one also had a tasty case of thrush, could that have been all that was making her unable to walk and this new one got Marek's another way? Can she get better? The other five new ones are so healthy, should I cull the little sick one now to save the rest? So many questions, thanks in advance

 

[ochochicas]

Hello! Another Marek's case in denial here. We just moved into a house that came with a very sick chicken. We didn't think she would make it, I somehow nursed her back to health. She spent a few days not leaving her cubby, I started bringing her outside every morning and putting her back every night. She couldn't walk, she would use her wings to balance herself, now she's up and walking and eating and completely better. So a couple months ago we got one month old chicks and now one of them seems to have come down with Marek's. Can't walk or stand, laying with one leg straight back and one straight forward... It's heartbreaking, she's so tiny compared to the rest. Do chickens ever get over Marek's? The first one also had a tasty case of thrush, could that have been all that was making her unable to walk and this new one got Marek's another way? Can she get better? The other five new ones are so healthy, should I cull the little sick one now to save the rest? So many questions, thanks in advance

Sorry to hear about your chicks Becca. My very first chick to get it was smaller than the rest and I think her immune system was compromised from the beginning which is why she got sick so much earlier than the others. It could be that your sick chicken in a Marek's carrier, or perhaps there is Marek's on your property from the previous owner. The virus can stay dormant in coops and soil for seven years.

If the hen got better with your care, I am doubtful that it was Marek's that caused her inability to walk. I've never had a chicken recover and regain its ability to walk (or breathe or see or whatever the case may be).

I think you will need to cull the little one just to be fair to her. However, it will not save the rest of the chicks. If the sick one has Marek's, then the others have already been exposed. It is too late to isolate them or vaccinate since they've already been exposed to the virus. Sorry for the bad news. If you are lucky the strain of the virus will be low virulence and not all of your chicks will develop the disease.

 

[ochochicas]

My broody raised chicks are 10 weeks old now. I've been working some crazy hours lately and have been getting up in the dark to feed. I noticed one of the pullets has been on the floor of the coop in the morning, which is odd. I've been watching her closely in the afternoon. She runs around just fine with her buddies, but I noticed she has trouble getting down the hill and she also sits on her hocks when she eats. Sadly I'm 99% sure this is the beginning of Marek's for her. Over the next few weeks I'm expecting her legs to get weaker at the paralysis sets in. I just want to make sure before I cull her.

The broody raised chicks were hatched from eggs that came from what I thought were Marek's resistant hens. They were isolated with their broody mom with clean bedding and were not exposed to the rest of the birds for 4 - 5 weeks. They were also vaccinated at hatch as a precaution to see if they could be isolated long enough to build immunity before being exposed. It looks like the plan was not fool proof. In addition, their "resistant" mom died from Marek's last week. I'm also wondering now if the broody hen could be a carrier.

Two weeks ago I also lost one of my vaccinated cockerels. There will be no more hatching or chicks on the farm until I can show that the vaccine is helping in some way.

 

[seminolewind]

Hello! Another Marek's case in denial here. We just moved into a house that came with a very sick chicken. We didn't think she would make it, I somehow nursed her back to health. She spent a few days not leaving her cubby, I started bringing her outside every morning and putting her back every night. She couldn't walk, she would use her wings to balance herself, now she's up and walking and eating and completely better. So a couple months ago we got one month old chicks and now one of them seems to have come down with Marek's. Can't walk or stand, laying with one leg straight back and one straight forward... It's heartbreaking, she's so tiny compared to the rest. Do chickens ever get over Marek's? The first one also had a tasty case of thrush, could that have been all that was making her unable to walk and this new one got Marek's another way? Can she get better? The other five new ones are so healthy, should I cull the little sick one now to save the rest? So many questions, thanks in advance

I I could write a whole book but your best bet is to read the Big FAQ Marek's link at the bottom of my posts. It will give you all the basics and more.

Marek's is most likely on your property for life. Culling one will not save the rest. You may want to send a dead one to a lab, another link at the bottom of my posts because it's the only way to know for sure. From now on every chick you get needs to be vaccinated day 1 of life and quarantined for at least 3 weeks. You can have day old hatchery chicks vaccinated before they ship them.

 

[ranchokelly]

I have a several-year history of problems with Marek's... I was down to two older hens that never had symptoms (but were vaccinated chicks) when I started over with 5 vaccinated chicks this past January. Two ended up to be roosters and went back to the breeder, and one developed paralysis at around 4-5 months. Isolation, hypericum and loving care wasn't helping, so I put her down.

Now one of these hens has started limping, and I'm quite attached to her and hoping I can help her pull through. I think she's about 7 months old, and the one other hen the same age started laying over a month ago, but not this one. She had been sick with coccidiosis in the first month, and her growth was then a lot slower than the others. I had thought she was in the clear at this age, but rereading the big Marek's FAQ I see 25 weeks.... I'm not sure when she went out to the coop, but it might just barely be within that time frame.

Any thoughts or advice? She seems healthy otherwise, do you think at this age she has a better chance of survival? I'm dreading watching the slow decline.

 

[ochochicas]

I have a several-year history of problems with Marek's... I was down to two older hens that never had symptoms (but were vaccinated chicks) when I started over with 5 vaccinated chicks this past January. Two ended up to be roosters and went back to the breeder, and one developed paralysis at around 4-5 months. Isolation, hypericum and loving care wasn't helping, so I put her down.

Now one of these hens has started limping, and I'm quite attached to her and hoping I can help her pull through. I think she's about 7 months old, and the one other hen the same age started laying over a month ago, but not this one. She had been sick with coccidiosis in the first month, and her growth was then a lot slower than the others. I had thought she was in the clear at this age, but rereading the big Marek's FAQ I see 25 weeks.... I'm not sure when she went out to the coop, but it might just barely be within that time frame.

Any thoughts or advice? She seems healthy otherwise, do you think at this age she has a better chance of survival? I'm dreading watching the slow decline.

Were your vaccinated chicks isolated at your place for 3 weeks before they could have been exposed to the virus? It takes 3 - 6 weeks for the chicks to develop enough immunity after being vaccinated. This means no exposure to contaminated areas, no sharing feed/food bowls/bedding sources/coops/etc. with the other hens, and you have to make sure that YOU are clean before you handle the chicks. For example, if you were holding one of the hens, you could have dander on your jacket. If you go in and handle the chicks with your jacket on, the chicks could get the virus on them.

The other thing that could have happened is that the chicks were exposed to the virus at the breeder's farm before you got them. I know there is a huge farm near me that sells thousands of chicks each year. They have Marek's on their farm, but most of the public does not know this. All the chicks they sell are sold as vaccinated, but that does not guarantee they have not been exposed to the virus before being sold.

My unvaccinated chicks have gotten sick between 10 and 35 weeks. Average age has been around 18 weeks, but there is a lot of variability. I also have one older pullet (12 month) that started limping slightly and died 5 days later. She wasn't wasting or showing progressing paralysis, just died in the coop one afternoon. If your older hen has it, don't think she will "survive" for very long.

 

[ranchokelly]

Ugh - if she does have to go, I hope it's quick like your older one! The slow paralysis is terrible. I've gone through 6 chickens that I put down when they just couldn't walk anymore, and all were fairly healthy otherwise.
I did have one make a full recovery (though her symptoms were different, so I'm not 100% sure if it was Marek's) , only to be eaten by a predator a year later.