Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Sonya9]

With some brooder modifications, I raised chicks with a broody hen this summer. They were vaccinated at hatch and then put back with their mom. One of the pullets showed signs of Marek's at 10 weeks. She obviously was exposed to the virus at some point before she had built enough immunity from the vaccine. I was sure she would die, but decided to ride it out. She was sick for about 3 weeks before starting to improve. She actually made a full 100% recovery and is a normal pullet now. I totally expect her to have a relapse and die in the near future, but only time will tell.

I thought if they were vaccinated at hatch they needed to remain in a Marek's free environment for 3 weeks to develop immunity.

I have had Marek's in the flock for 2 years and most all losses were young birds that I brought in, the stress of integration seemed to trigger it.

This year I have had 3 broody raised clutches with NO Marek's symptoms in any of the chicks (knock on wood)! They are a variety of breeds so it can't be chocked up to genetics, 2 were homebred bantam chicks and the other 4 were purchased from a breeder at 1 day old (breeds included heritage RIRs, Norwegian Jaerhon and a pretty blue pullet who's breed I can't recall). They are 3 months, 4 months and 7 months and doing great.

None were vaccinated and all chicks were raised with the flock from the start so they never have any integration stress as juveniles, I believe that is the thing that has kept all of them healthy and Marek's free. Fortunately we also didn't have any minor injuries or predator stress to trigger a Marek's episode.

Here is a photo of the 7 month old bantam roo, his mom is a BB Red and his daddy is a Ginger. He may be a mutt but I think he is pure eye candy in a tiny package.

 

[ochochicas]

I am so sorry for your loss I know how you feel a couple of years ago I got some beautiful Orpingtons and brahmas from a breeder and a few months later they developed Mareks out of 36 birds only 3 lived and it stinks because I have to vaccinate everyone now that I raise but I have the number to and excellent vaccine company that is very reasonable on pricing.

Where are you getting your vaccine from? I wasn't happy with the shipping the last time I ordered mine.

 

[ochochicas]

Sonya, you are correct that the chicks are supposed to remain isolated for at least 3 weeks after being vaccinated so their bodies have enough time to build antibodies to Marek's. However, I wanted to try to raise chicks with a broody. I was fairly sure she is not a carrier since I got her when she was older and I assumed she was already immune. Anyway, I took a chance and when her chicks hatched I moved everyone to a new "clean" brooder that had never had any chickens in it before. They stayed there for 2 - 3 weeks while giving them time to build immunity. Of course I recognize that the wind could blow dander into their enclosure, or they could have been exposed in their feed, my clothing, etc. The chicks are 5 months old and I have not lost a single one. With my previous hatches I had sick birds by 12 weeks and losses by 21 weeks. Out of more than 20 pullets only 3 of them made it to POL.

For whatever reason, my experimental chicks are smaller than they should be. I have 3 1/2 month old chicks that are bigger than they are. They hatched from pullet eggs, so I'm thinking that may be part of the problem. I have 4 pullets and only one of them is just starting to get a pink comb. I'm totally expecting some of them to get sick and never lay, but if they don't I hope to show others that you can go on after the Marek's diagnosis.

That is awesome that your flock seems to be totally healthy after 2 years. I hope your chicks continue to do well this year!

 

[Sonya9]

With my previous hatches I had sick birds by 12 weeks and losses by 21 weeks. Out of more than 20 pullets only 3 of them made it to POL.

When did the previous hatches get sick? When they were integrating into the main flock?

With this healthy batch did you integrate the mom and chicks together with the flock at 3 weeks?

I am not discounting the possibility of the vaccine helping, I just wonder if the chicks were raised differently and had less stress as a result.

 

[ochochicas]

Quote:
Those are very good questions My two broody batches were exposed to the flock at day one (they hatched in the hen house). With both of those, the first sick bird appeared at 12 weeks. The sick pullet from the first hatch was kept alive to 29 weeks with daily supportive care. The rest of them died by 8 months. The second broody batch had chicks die between 21 and 28 weeks. The 28 week old pullet was sick early on, recovered, laid eggs, and then died later. The incubator chicks were transitioned to the barn at 4 -5 weeks. They would spend small parts of the day outside to acclimate them to the colder weather (it was winter). The first sick chicks appeared at 9 weeks. These chicks could have been exposed early than 5 weeks because their food and bedding were stored in the barn where the Marek's was living. They could have been exposed via contaminated bedding. That chick was necropsied at 14 weeks. I lost a bird a week from that hatch all the way up to 24 weeks. A couple lived a bit longer. I have one hen left, but she is sick and will probably die soon. None of them were vaccinated. With my current broody hatch, the chicks were free ranging with their mom at 3 weeks. They usually stayed in a "cleaner" part of the yard and were never living in the barn where all the other sick birds live. I added a new coop to the property and that is where they live now. They are exposed to the other birds on a daily basis and share the same yard, but the are not constantly exposed to the other birds. I think their stress level was not any less than the previous hatches. At 5 weeks their mom started beating them up and she went back to the coop. I added some slightly older chicks to the grow out pen with them and they had to learn to get along. This was about the time the little pullet began to act sick. Perhaps it was the stress of being with the bigger birds. As soon as I removed the cockerels from the pen she started to get better. I think part of the reason the incubator chicks got sick so quick is that they were isolated in the house and then they were hit with a huge dose of virus all at once, day after day, and their immune systems didn't have a chance. The broody raised chicks from my current hatch were exposed gradually and slowly to the virus which I think enhanced their immune systems. The vaccine is definitely working. Even the broody raised chicks are healthier than their unvaccinated predecessors.

 

[ochochicas]

Unfortunately my last unvaccinated pullet had to be culled last week. She is from my Australorp hen and one of two sisters that made it long enough to lay eggs. She always had weird eyes that I think were caused by Marek's. She was just shy of her first birthday when she refused to eat and was wasting. The kindest thing to do was let her go with the rest of her sisters. I feel she was lucky to have survived so long, but at the same time sad that her life was cut short.

Fortunately she did lay fertile eggs and I have a couple of her chicks to carry on her sweet nature. RIP special girl.

 

[lalaland]

darn, ochichicas, I am sorry. That hurts. hang in there.

 

[alibabba]

I thought if they were vaccinated at hatch they needed to remain in a Marek's free environment for 3 weeks to develop immunity.

I have had Marek's in the flock for 2 years and most all losses were young birds that I brought in, the stress of integration seemed to trigger it.

This year I have had 3 broody raised clutches with NO Marek's symptoms in any of the chicks (knock on wood)! They are a variety of breeds so it can't be chocked up to genetics, 2 were homebred bantam chicks and the other 4 were purchased from a breeder at 1 day old (breeds included heritage RIRs, Norwegian Jaerhon and a pretty blue pullet who's breed I can't recall). They are 3 months, 4 months and 7 months and doing great.

None were vaccinated and all chicks were raised with the flock from the start so they never have any integration stress as juveniles, I believe that is the thing that has kept all of them healthy and Marek's free. Fortunately we also didn't have any minor injuries or predator stress to trigger a Marek's episode.

Here is a photo of the 7 month old bantam roo, his mom is a BB Red and his daddy is a Ginger. He may be a mutt but I think he is pure eye candy in a tiny package.

I have yet to read the entire post...but I have the same eye candy in a EE Roo...gold/black green hackles, blue wings, purple and green in his tail....God's glory! in a way... I need to find him a home... But I appreciate the feeling.. WOW, just WOW!

 

[alibabba]

This is also interesting to me...because I have mixed breed chicks being broody raised now. I really don't like vaccinating...I really hate death and culling. argh.

I should .probably let these just go...see what happens.

I did have one roo, with sorta classic symptoms put down a few weeks ago. after losing 3 to Marek's. I have a really wet yard (bottom of hills) may help killing virus but who knows.


ETA: he was a young cockerel...per typical just getting his hormones. vaccinated...and others with him vaccinated and healthy as horses. Penned the bugges together today as they are feeling it and not being gentlemen.


ETA: I took that guy...so happy though he couldn't walk and then went one leg front one back to my cheap vet...yeah. $50 big dollas.

I must learn how to use an axe or a broom or find a hard heart.... grrr.

 

[alibabba]

Unfortunately my last unvaccinated pullet had to be culled last week. She is from my Australorp hen and one of two sisters that made it long enough to lay eggs. She always had weird eyes that I think were caused by Marek's. She was just shy of her first birthday when she refused to eat and was wasting. The kindest thing to do was let her go with the rest of her sisters. I feel she was lucky to have survived so long, but at the same time sad that her life was cut short.



Fortunately she did lay fertile eggs and I have a couple of her chicks to carry on her sweet nature. RIP special girl.

awww gosh, so sorry for this and all of your losses. Shouldn't be this way for such hardy creatures.