Not sure, but I think my rooster killed one of my older hens!

[JJSS89]

I don't have his certificate of live hatch

Actually now that I think of it...he wont be 16 until this summer. I hesitated to say I had a bird that old, figured I'd be labeled a quack.

I have a picture of him when he was a young cockerel...a polaroid, when I am holding him. His spurs are about 4" now, they have broken off countless times.

 

[CrazyTalk]

If you have genetically weak, sick birds, or neglected birds. I have an old flock of hens aged 9 and 10 years old. They are active and still lay eggs.

"genetically weak" doesn't really mean anything - it's about what they've been selected for. Production hens are selected for egg laying productivity, thriftiness, and quick maturation - and they are those things. They're not genetically weak - they have ridiculously high fecundity. They just aren't selected for long life - as they're culled when laying slows down. Most of the long lived hens mature slower, eat more, and don't lay as often.

Production breeds can be really healthy, vigorous, strong birds - they're just bred for a different goal than heritage hens.

 

[JJSS89]

Agreed. Different yolks for different folks.

 

[Michael Apple]

"genetically weak" doesn't really mean anything - it's about what they've been selected for. Production hens are selected for egg laying productivity, thriftiness, and quick maturation - and they are those things. They're not genetically weak - they have ridiculously high fecundity. They just aren't selected for long life - as they're culled when laying slows down. Most of the long lived hens mature slower, eat more, and don't lay as often.

Production breeds can be really healthy, vigorous, strong birds - they're just bred for a different goal than heritage hens.

Of course it does. Lack of longevity and internal laying due to breeding practices, motivated by finance rather than genetic health for longevity, is a weakness. An example of the Hy-Line W-36, which are bred only for an abundance of eggs for a year, are not bred for longevity but rather "designed" for market interests. Those are interests which are contradictory to the reasons most people raise chickens on BYC. If your primary interests are based upon convenience and greed, then I understand your refusal to comprehend what is meant by genetically weak.

 

[CrazyTalk]

The fact that an animal doesn't meet your needs doesn't mean it is inferior. People have different needs.

 

[Michael Apple]

The fact that an animal doesn't meet your needs doesn't mean it is inferior. People have different needs.

Needs have nothing to do with it. The desire to breed for health and longevity is not a need, but rather a necessity for the existence of any organism. In regard to breeding chickens, I suggest you read this: http://www.amazon.com/Genetics-Fowl-Classic-Chicken-Breeding/dp/0972177035

 

[CrazyTalk]

No, longevity is not needed - longevity is only a small factor in fecundity. There are plenty of species that do just fine with short lifespans.


There is no gain to breeding for increased lifespan in a livestock animal that is going to be slaughtered well before it hits its natural lifespan. Production birds are not bred to be pets - they're bred to be commercial livestock.

Their genetics suit their intended use perfectly, and are only "weak" if you're using them outside that. It's a bit like saying a shark has weak genetics because it can't survive on land. Things evolve to suit their selective pressures.

 

[Michael Apple]

No, longevity is not needed - longevity is only a small factor in fecundity. There are plenty of species that do just fine with short lifespans.
It's a bit like saying a shark has weak genetics because it can't survive on land. Things evolve to suit their selective pressures.

A hen which lives 7-10 years will produce more eggs than a hen that burns out after 1-2 years. I'll take longevity over market convenience any day. The shark comparison makes no sense. I'm not suggesting chickens should adapt to breathing under water as genetic improvement any more than suggesting a fish adapt to living out of water. Like I said, read the book I suggested. You'll improve your understanding.

 

[CrazyTalk]

A hen which lives 7-10 years will produce more eggs than a hen that burns out after 1-2 years. I'll take longevity over market convenience any day. The shark comparison makes no sense. I'm not suggesting chickens should adapt to breathing under water as genetic improvement any more than suggesting a fish adapt to living out of water. Like I said, read the book I suggested. You'll improve your understanding.

The issue isn't total production - it's production per unit food, and production per unit time. The ONLY important things for a production bird are how many eggs they can produce during the first 18-24 months of their lives, how much food they eat doing it, and what the mortality rate is during that 18-24 months.


A commercial keeper would say that heritage birds have "weak" genetics - they eat way too much, they take way too long to mature, and they don't lay enough eggs.

People keep chickens for different reasons, and different breeds have different purposes.

 

[carlsaSC]

I have a small flock of 11 girls ranging from a year old to 5 years. The five years old hens are Buff Orpingtons and the younger chicks are BSLs and a Gold Comet. Also have 3 Dominiques that are 4. I have a RIR/Ameraucana cross rooster that has always been submissive to people and watches his hens generally well. However, he is extremely aggressive toward two of the Buffies. I suspect he killed one of them. (I had segregated two when he would charge them, hold them down and peck at them. One was nearly dead, but revived when separated. I suspect he ultimately killed that one when they were out free-ranging.) So, there is one Buffie in his good graces and one not. I found the out of favor chicken lying on the ground, her neck and head badly beaten. Again, I suspect the roo. I am limited in how much separation I can manage, but she sleeps outside the coop in the secure run at night. I could close her off, but that would mean dedicating a third of the run to only one chicken, an old, non-laying one at that. But, I don't want the roo to beat her to death. I doubt the roo can be trained to not be as aggressive to only one hen, but I don't know how to redirect his behavior.