Nutridrench and a recovering hen

[Eggcessive]

I would say her loss of appetite is due to liver disease. The B vitamin thiamine in the NutriDrench may help stimulate that. The removal of all of the ascites fluid has made her weak. It is hard not to try and help drain them to help them breathe easier, but I normally do not drain my hens when ascites is suspected, preferring to let them be, and try to make them comfortable. Ascites/water belly is eventually fatal. Is her crop empty and flat?

 

[MandS]

Thanks Eggcesive.

Her crop has been reasonably full at bed time and slightly full on waking up. Having a drink and a quick massage and it goes. It's not big though but certainly not totally flat by bedtime.

For the last 48 hours, she's just lost interest in treats. She's still drinking and trying to eat (with a little bit of success) her pellets but nothing else. She's very weak. Balance is now poor and she's in the 45 degree stance, which is new. Her abdomen is filling up again and she's lost about another 3oz since the last post. There's no muscle on her to speak of.

I tried to give her Emeraid Omnivore but she wasn't interested. I managed to get a little through the side of her beak but at this point, I'm trying not to stress her further by tube feeding.

My guess is that she will pass in the night. She is an incredible fighter - still trying to eat and drink before she settled down. I have her in an indoor cage, nice, warm and dark in a room that is closed to everyone else including cats.

With our time difference, I can read any suggestions before I see her in the morning, and should she have battled on another night, I can try whatever you suggest. Never knew about the vit B. I could have supplemented that - although it's in the poultry tonic that I'm giving her.

Finally, her poop has gone runny again. Initially green and now slightly yellow. Shame, I'd just helped her get back to solid normal looking poop.

I hate losing a hen and I try very hard to do what I can and to learn from each experience. This is one of those occasions....

 

[MandS]

I'm delighted to say she didn't pass in the night. She was standing up eating pellets when I uncovered her cage. She's still standing in the 45 degree stance but seems brighter.

So having read up on things last night, I discovered the use of wet cat food for recovering hens. So I tried it. She loves it! I gave her a fish based one not meat but it's got good levels of protein, fat and sugars. Yes, the taurine isn't helpful but I'm not going to feed her it for very long.

Interestingly, she's also eaten lots of pellets. I've just felt her crop, which was empty this morning, and it's the fullest I've felt for ages.

I know we are not out of the woods yet but if she perks up and gains some strength, then I will drain her abdomen but for now, I just want her to be comfortable, unstressed and getting some appetite back.

This is a bit of a rollercoaster but I'm very happy to still have her here and with a little bit of chance to recover.

 

[MandS]

Alas, not so good today. She is still here but very weak. She's able to stand but walking is laboured and frail. I've kept chickens for many years and I've never felt a chicken's leg that has no flesh or muscle on it, just the bone from the knee to the hip. She's basically wasted away. This is within 2 weeks.

I'm guessing this could therefore be a cancer as that's the same kind of thing I've seen in family members who succumbed to various cancers. Just loss of weight, muscle and eventually total weakness. There being an acceleration of all these symptoms as the end approached.

Other than keeping her warm, I'm at a loss. She's having the odd sip of water and a few pellets. Won't touch cat food today. Oddly, her crop was full last night and totally empty this morning, yet she hasn't done any poop other than clear mucus like poop. I find that odd.

 

[Eggcessive]

I’m sorry that she has gotten worse. I would try to make her as comfortable as possible. Hopefully, she doesn’t suffer. Many times when I have lost one, I have made a point of doing a necropsy after death, which has made it more clear what was wrong. There is a good video of doing a necropsy that is online, and it helps to identify the organs. Let us know what happens.

 

[MandS]

Well, miracles do happen. We are still here although extremely weak. She was standing up again and drank some water and pecked a few pellets. So I made the decision to tube feed her. Very apprehensive but, like you suggested Eggcesive, the were good videos on YouTube.

I got the Emeraid - Omnivore. I didn't overdo it because it was the first day. I gave her about 15cc to start with and then 3 hours later about 25cc. She tolerated it well although she did manage to pull her head and dislodge the tube, so much so I had to yank it out quickly in case it dripped anything into her trachea.

I didn't feed her again in the evening. I think she had been through enough for one day and she had settled down and was bedding in for the night. She had a bit more to drink and even ate a grape.

For those in the UK who struggle to find things that seem to be easy to get in the US at Tractor Stores, I found the feeding tube is available at Mole Valley Farmers. It's called a lambing colostrum tube. Snip the wide end off so it attaches to a syringe (also available there) and it's soft, the right width and has holes only at the end. Only about £5 too. This is now part of my first aid kit.

Hopefully she will have a quiet night and, God willing, will be a bit stronger tomorrow.

 

[MandS]

More advice needed please. @Eggcesive - the vitamin deficiency you spoke about several posts ago, I think may be an issue.

She is still here. Standing like a penguin and eating and drinking very little. Her poop is not fully solid but is the right colour at least.

However I noticed her head was twitching when she was looking at food. This has been going on a few days. Today her head is, every now and then, going to her right side almost like she's going to tuck her head under her wing.

Her mobility is poor. She tried to get into the little box I'd put into the cage, where she's been putting herself to bed the previous 2 weeks, however she just fell into it with her legs sticking out the box, her on her front, but unable to get it off that position. I've now removed the box and the whole place is flat but it indicates how her motor skills have declined.

I've got some vitamin b complex, although it's also got vitamin c in it too.

Should I start getting this into her asap? I've attached the composition of a tablet, so if you could suggest how much of a tablet, I'd be grateful.

Thank you.

 

[MandS]

Anyone?

I'm still tube feeding but her neck movements are getting more pronounced so I'm trying to get vit b (1,2 and 12) into her but don't want to risk overdose. I've found another B complex with much lower active ingredients.

She's not eating much on her own. Her weight is less. I drained her and she's more comfortable but she's very weak.

She's getting vit E from the Emeraid and previously from the nutri drench, but it doesn't contain any vit b at all. I also noticed that their regular pellets don't have any vit B either.

If anyone can give me any help, is appreciate it, particularly if it's worked for them in the past.

Thank you

 

[LaFleche]

one of my older hens who is 4 and had just had a huge amount of liquid drained from her abdomen (660ml or 22.3 FL Oz).

Draining too much at once can cause hypokalemia ( potassium deficiency) and also magnesium deficiency.

So try to substitute the loss and she might feel a little better.

But the underlying problem that is causi g the ascites will not be helped in the long run and maybe it is time to reevaluate and consider her quality of life.

We can sometimes get too caught up in our wish/need to help trying almost every medication and additive under the sun, when the merciful thing might be to end the suffering.

 

[Eggcessive]

Sorry that I had not seen the latest posts. B complex 1/2 tablet crushed and vitamin E 400 IU is what I would recommend daily. Open the softgel into the food. B complex has all B vitamins plus C and some others. Since she is more weak, I would not drain her. As said, draining causes electrolyte and fluid depletion. Since ascites (water belly) is a fatal condition in end stage reproductive disease, cancer, and heart disease, it might give some time, but I prefer to let things happen naturally. I would continue to tube feed if you can manage it. Having a helper twice a day may make it easier.