Oats

[saysfaa]

..
Or should I just use their layer food snd mix it with water and heat it up
Any suggestions would be very welcome
Also heard conflicting ideas about protecting combs and wattles from frost bite
I know about the humidity factor in this but ..

I tried heating their regular feed up. Once. I vastly prefer heating plain water then stirring it into their feed. I try for nicely warm food; not cooked even if it is cooled afterwards enough for them to eat it.

Protecting combs and wattles from frost bite: yes, humidity is the biggest thing. Also, not letting them run out of drinkable water (dehydrated birds have less blood flow through the combs and wattles). I think rubbing oils or lotions onto their skin does not help and often harms. I can't find peer reviewed studies on it either way, though.

 

[K0k0shka]

My main breed is prone to obesity, so I avoid any non-feed foods whenever possible. So I don't feed oats. I feed Purina Flock Raiser Crumble and am very happy with it! The chickens love it, it's a complete feed, it's a big brand I can trust, and because it's so popular, it's easy to find and sells fast, so bags don't sit around at the store and get old like some of the fancier or more expensive ones do if there isn't enough demand.

What I do instead of warm oatmeal, which achieves the same goal, is I mix their Purina feed with hot water. I have hot water in my basement (which is where my chicken supplies are), so I just run it as hot as it will get from the tap, and mix that in with the feed, to the consistency of clumpy wet sand. By the time it's mixed and I take it out to the flock, it has cooled down enough for them to eat, but is still very warm. They love it! If you don't have easy access to hot water near your chicken supplies, you can heat up some water in the microwave in your kitchen and just take it out with you to mix with the feed.

I don't put anything on their combs for frostbite, I just have LOTS of weather-protected ventilation open at all times. Never had frostbite yet. I did try putting vaseline on their combs once, out of curiosity, and it was a massive fail. They really didn't like having something on their combs, so they ALL went and dust-bathed in their peat moss dust bath as soon as I was done greasing them. The result - their combs AND their heads were black for the next several weeks!!!!! The grease really glued the dust down and it was impossible to clean it off. All that blackness would make it impossible for you to see if there's actual real frostbite forming, since frostbite looks like darkened areas on the comb/wattles. So, all in all, I found that to be a bad idea, and haven't done it again since.

 

[Krugerrand]

If Organic and GMO are not important to you (they are not to me), Purina Flock Raiser's guaranteed nutrition label is, in my view, somewhat superior to Nutrena's All Flock, though both are perfectly acceptable, widely available products I've used without issue. Anything with similar nutrition is just fine.

I could explain why I think Purina better, but that would be a lengthy post (which I've made before - its searchable) I don't have time to repeat at the moment.

Currently, and for the foreseeable future, I use feed from a family feed store, straight from the local mill (and cheaper than buying at said mill).

If you have another feed in mind, routinely in stock, routinely fresh, at a price point you find acceptable, let us know - I can probably find time today to glance at its label, if its available on line.

Is there any benefit when feeding only hens to use All Flock over Layer? I've been feeding Nautre's Best layer from Tractor Supply. I keep oyster shells available but they never eat them.

 

[K0k0shka]

Is there any benefit when feeding only hens to use All Flock over Layer? I've been feeding Nautre's Best layer from Tractor Supply. I keep oyster shells available but they never eat them.

Chickens don't tend to like oyster shell. They may eat it if they absolutely have to, but they much prefer crushed eggshell. Oysters are just unnatural to them (where would a chicken encounter an oyster?) They may also not eat them because they don't need extra calcium at the moment, since layer feed has calcium included in the mix.

Chickens are very good at knowing what they need. When they need calcium, they'll seek it out, and they can regulate themselves to eat only as much as they need. If you take that control away from them, you have to hope that the flat rate calcium provided in the feed is the right amount at any point in time. The hen can no longer control it. But her calcium needs will vary throughout the year and her lifetime. When she's not laying because of molt, disease, age, etc. she doesn't need the extra calcium in layer feed. It can build up over time and cause issues. You may or may not see them for a long time, since they'll take time to build up, and once they start showing up, you may not make the connection with the feed, since it won't be immediately obvious. So, feeding layer all the time won't immediately harm or kill them, but if you want to play the long game and get long healthy lifespans out of your hens, giving them control over their calcium intake is better.

Some of my hens stopped laying at the end of July for their molt, and haven't resumed yet. That's half a year that they haven't needed extra calcium. If I'd been feeding them layer, it would've been half a year of additional, unnecessary calcium building up in their bodies. I'd rather not do that. So everybody eats Flock Raiser all the time (including chicks and young birds - it's 20% protein, the same as chick starter). I only ever change their feed when I have new hatchlings - then I get medicated chick starter, which is safe for the rest of the flock to eat as well, and when they finish that bag, everybody goes on Flock Raiser again.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Is there any benefit when feeding only hens to use All Flock over Layer? I've been feeding Nautre's Best layer from Tractor Supply. I keep oyster shells available but they never eat them.

YES.

But that's not the answer you want.

Layer was formulated to, in theory, be the least expensive feed one could offer commercial layer breeds, in their prime productive period, raised under commercial management, below which losses in egg size, frewquency, condition (and losses in increased bird mortality) exceed the value of the savings in using the inexpensive feed mix.

If you don't have commercial layers, the high calcium content of layer builds over time, a condition called calcium toxicity, which contributes to poor health and eventual death, with a host of problems along the way - gout, intestinal tract issues, the like. This is particularly the case with breeds that lay infrequently, and lay small to medium eggs. as well as pullets before onset of lay, birds in molt, older birds whose egg laying has slowed considerably.

All Flock's higher protein content results, statistically in larger eggs and more frequent egg laying. BUT those differences are quite small. Typically 2-3% larger eggs (1-2g) and 2-3% greater frequency (which, even for a first year golden comet is likely only 5-8 eggs over 12 months). Higher protein also contributes to faster, less stressful molts, and better bird condition overall - a factor in disease, pest, weather resistance. But once again, those differences are quite small.

For people who keep their birds as pets, there is a strong suggestion in the literature that it contributes generally to longer lives (improved body condition, better stress response over their lives), but of course that's not well studied, being of no commercial value.

Increasing protein also has declining benefit. While going from 16% to 18 or 20% has a reliably recorded 2-3% benefit across a host of measures, going from 20% to say, 24% protein is usually *much* more expensive than the increase from 16 to 20, and the benefits are even less, around 1%+.

I personally feed my birds 24%. For the first 8 weeks of their lives - their most critical growth stage, then they join the main flock at 18-20%, depending on cost. But I eat my cuilled males, they are dual purpose mutts, so the additional early weight gain benefits my table, and helps me select future breeders from needed culls at earlier age - ultimately saving me money in not needing to feed birds to week 20, 22, 24 when I can make selections and culls at week 16 or 18.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

and, since we are talking calcium, and "typical", in the interest of full disclosure, I will offer that I don't feed my flock "All FLock/Flock Raiser" as I recommend above.

My flock isn't backyard typical. (See sig) My conditions aren't typical - my birds free range about 5 acres, including about 2a of "pasture". and my management isn't typical, as I have a culling project incidental to egg production and meat from my table.

Foir reasons of cost, I routinely mix a bag of 24% protein from the local mill with a bag of 16% layer, ending up with a 20% protein feed with about 2.3-2.8% calcium. Plus free choice oyster shell, and I feed empty egg shells back to them as well. The calcium is TOO HIGH for my cockerels, but they don't start eating it until after 8 weeks of age (all birds are most susceptible to dietary problems in their first months of development), and they likely get culled before 6 months - so the chances of calcium building to the point of noticeable damage is quite small, likely close to negligible. I've never seen clinical evidence in a butchered bird with the naked eye. My breeding roosters make it a little longer, between a year and a year and a half. I'll be culling one or two of them this month, and will document and findings of significant calcium buildup in their internal organs at that time.

Essentially, I'm engaged in risk management, made easier by the relatively short anticipated lifespans of my birds (I cull hens after a year or so, too), and the constant feedback I get thru near weekly cullings.

 

[cherrynberry]

and, since we are talking calcium, and "typical", in the interest of full disclosure, I will offer that I don't feed my flock "All FLock/Flock Raiser" as I recommend above.

My flock isn't backyard typical. (See sig) My conditions aren't typical - my birds free range about 5 acres, including about 2a of "pasture". and my management isn't typical, as I have a culling project incidental to egg production and meat from my table.

Foir reasons of cost, I routinely mix a bag of 24% protein from the local mill with a bag of 16% layer, ending up with a 20% protein feed with about 2.3-2.8% calcium. Plus free choice oyster shell, and I feed empty egg shells back to them as well. The calcium is TOO HIGH for my cockerels, but they don't start eating it until after 8 weeks of age, and they likely get culled before 6 months - so the chances of calcium building to the point of noticeable damage is quite small, likely close to negligible. I've never seen clinical evidence in a butchered bird with the naked eye. My breeding roosters make it a little longer, between a year and a year and a half. I'll be culling one or two of them this month, and will document and findings of significant calcium buildup in their internal organs at that time.

Essentially, I'm engaged in risk management, made easier by the relatively short anticipated lifespans of my birds (I cull hens after a year or so, too), and the constant feedback I get thru near weekly cullings.

Do you do record-keeping? It would be interesting to see the cost to egg ratio of a flock so large.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Do you do record-keeping? It would be interesting to see the cost to egg ratio of a flock so large.

Its money losing for me. Yes, I do record keeping of purchases and sales. No, I don't track egg collection daily. Some weeks, I sell all the eggs my birds produce. Many weeks I don't. Some of that gets fed back to the birds (I've done the math), a lot ends up on my table, in one form or another. We even make our own mayo!


After factoring in licensing, business filings, etc, it cost me about $800 last year, and I have maybe three birds that clearly further my culling goals. I expect similar losses this year, and hopefully, a few more decent birds. If I can transition from selling shell eggs for human consumption to hatching eggs or unsexed hatchlings, the economics look much better - I'm in an economically depressed area of the country - there's no market for shell eggs.

/edit the goat feed is a significant portion of that $800. Not half, but likely close to half. My feed costs are recorded together, but I know generally how much the goat feed costs relative to a bag of chicken feed on average, and the ratio of goat feed to chicken feed I buy monthly.

 

[Krugerrand]

Thank you @K0k0shka / @U_Stormcrow ! That's great information. My girls are young and have a ways to go before they molt. But, I'll keep an eye out for a different food for when they finish what I have on hand.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

That's what BYC is for - sharing what works for us, what didn't, and hopefully, some fo the why. So people can educate themselves, and make the best choices for their own needs.