Oh my, what on earth have I gotten us all into???

[Perris]

lol; it's the first few pages that have a lot of info in a clear to read and understand way, but there are gems scattered through for those persistent enough to plough through it!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Debbie's suggestion to wait until they start to hatch and set them on the floor of the coop makes sense to me.

We all do it differently. Lots of people suggest that.

I don't know when the hatch is over so I let the hen decide when to bring the chicks off of the nest. I've had broody hens bring their chicks off of the nest within 24 hours of the first one hatching. I've had broody hens wait until into the third day after the first one hatches to bring them off. Before they hatch they absorb the yolk. They can live off of the yolk without eating or drinking for over 72 hours. The chicks tell the broody when they are getting hungry or thirsty with their peeping so I leave those decisions up to her.

I can't tell exactly where that nest is in relation to the rest. I've seen a hen get her chicks out of a ten feet high hayloft. She said jump and they did, then bounced up and ran to her. A nest two or four feet off of the floor or ground doesn't worry me about them possibly getting hurt if they jump down.

Sometimes the first chicks that hatch climb up on Mama's back while waiting on the late ones. That's why I wanted that photo. If the hen was sitting so close to the edge that the chick would miss the nest when it fell off Mama then I'd be concerned the chick could wind up on the floor instead of in the nest where Mama can keep it warm and protect it. I had a nest like that made out of a cat litter bucket. The top was so small that the chicks missed the nest and fell to the coop floor four feet below. I had to put a chick back in the nest with Mama four different times, probably the same chick. It fell 4 feet and was not hurt. I do not see that problem with your nest.

the run attached to the house is predator proof;

The broody hen will probably try to take the chicks back up to the coop at night but it is unlikely they will be able to make it on their own at first. The hen will probably go to the pop door at the top of the ramp and call them. Some or all of the chicks will probably go to the ground under the pop door instead of using the ramp. They do not know to go to the base of the ramp and walk up. They will not be able to jump that high. So you have two choices. You can move the chicks up to her. After a few days they will figure the ramp out but you will need to be there every evening until they figure it out to help. It is possible the hen will stay up there, especially if a few chicks do make it up the ramp. She might leave the rest on the ground.

It is also possible she will fly down and take her chicks to bed on the ground. If you consider that area predator proof and she can take them out of the rain that would work. She will keep them warm.

 

[aliris]

We all do it differently. Lots of people suggest that.

I don't know when the hatch is over so I let the hen decide when to bring the chicks off of the nest. I've had broody hens bring their chicks off of the nest within 24 hours of the first one hatching. I've had broody hens wait until into the third day after the first one hatches to bring them off. Before they hatch they absorb the yolk. They can live off of the yolk without eating or drinking for over 72 hours. The chicks tell the broody when they are getting hungry or thirsty with their peeping so I leave those decisions up to her.

I can't tell exactly where that nest is in relation to the rest. I've seen a hen get her chicks out of a ten feet high hayloft. She said jump and they did, then bounced up and ran to her. A nest two or four feet off of the floor or ground doesn't worry me about them possibly getting hurt if they jump down.

Sometimes the first chicks that hatch climb up on Mama's back while waiting on the late ones. That's why I wanted that photo. If the hen was sitting so close to the edge that the chick would miss the nest when it fell off Mama then I'd be concerned the chick could wind up on the floor instead of in the nest where Mama can keep it warm and protect it. I had a nest like that made out of a cat litter bucket. The top was so small that the chicks missed the nest and fell to the coop floor four feet below. I had to put a chick back in the nest with Mama four different times, probably the same chick. It fell 4 feet and was not hurt. I do not see that problem with your nest.


The broody hen will probably try to take the chicks back up to the coop at night but it is unlikely they will be able to make it on their own at first. The hen will probably go to the pop door at the top of the ramp and call them. Some or all of the chicks will probably go to the ground under the pop door instead of using the ramp. They do not know to go to the base of the ramp and walk up. They will not be able to jump that high. So you have two choices. You can move the chicks up to her. After a few days they will figure the ramp out but you will need to be there every evening until they figure it out to help. It is possible the hen will stay up there, especially if a few chicks do make it up the ramp. She might leave the rest on the ground.

It is also possible she will fly down and take her chicks to bed on the ground. If you consider that area predator proof and she can take them out of the rain that would work. She will keep them warm.

Wow. Not even sure what "take them out of the nest" means, but I'm sure it will become apparent.

I think I can set them up with a comfy nest like space down below. Right now there are three nesting boxes on the side of the house roosting space, which is enclosed at the top of the ramp. It's all covered; rain is no problem and this is southern CA anyway. It's all really a matter of comfort. I guess what I'm wondering is, is there "socializing" benefit to their being with the rest? How much wandering about do they do? I've bought week-old chicks from a hardware store and just kept them in a cardboard box inside with a heating pad underneath til they got big enough to go outside. There was no problem with them not having far-enough to roam....

I'll just feel this one out.

I did lift the broody off her eggs again, late afternoon as before. I am pretty sure she had not moved all day. She ran around fluffed and bupping and then pooped about a liter of material. Oh my. Then scratched frantically and wolfed at food I gave her then pooped another half liter, ran back to the nest and her proto-babies. I don't think she drank. Bupping all the way. She seems to take her job _very_ seriously.

 

[Ridgerunner]

is there "socializing" benefit to their being with the rest?

Yes. If you isolate them you have to integrate them when the hen weans them. If the hen raises them with the flock she handles integration for you.

Wean means she stops taking care of them and leaves them to take care of themselves. That includes getting their own food, water, sleeping arrangements, and getting along with the rest of the flock. I've had a hen wean her chicks as young as 3 weeks. I've had some not wean their chicks until after two months. Each time can be different, even with the same broody.

Until the chicks reach a certain maturity level they are not going to mingle with the flock. If they invade the personal space of an adult they sometimes get pecked. It usually does not take long for the chicks to learn to avoid the adults. During the day you see two different flocks. If the adults approach the young they run away. At night the young do not sleep on the roosts with the adults, they find someplace else to sleep. If you have a lot of roost space widely spread out that might be a back corner of the roosts. It might be on the coop floor, in a nest, or somewhere else. It is a good idea to have multiple feed and water stations so they can eat and drink in peace without the adults bullying them.

About the time my pullets start laying they join the flock as full members. Until then they form a sub-flock, avoiding the adults.

In this, integration means the chicks learn to avoid the hens and the hens learn to not go out of their way to attack the chicks.

 

[aliris]

Yes. If you isolate them you have to integrate them when the hen weans them. If the hen raises them with the flock she handles integration for you.

Wean means she stops taking care of them and leaves them to take care of themselves. That includes getting their own food, water, sleeping arrangements, and getting along with the rest of the flock. I've had a hen wean her chicks as young as 3 weeks. I've had some not wean their chicks until after two months. Each time can be different, even with the same broody.

Until the chicks reach a certain maturity level they are not going to mingle with the flock. If they invade the personal space of an adult they sometimes get pecked. It usually does not take long for the chicks to learn to avoid the adults. During the day you see two different flocks. If the adults approach the young they run away. At night the young do not sleep on the roosts with the adults, they find someplace else to sleep. If you have a lot of roost space widely spread out that might be a back corner of the roosts. It might be on the coop floor, in a nest, or somewhere else. It is a good idea to have multiple feed and water stations so they can eat and drink in peace without the adults bullying them.

About the time my pullets start laying they join the flock as full members. Until then they form a sub-flock, avoiding the adults.

In this, integration means the chicks learn to avoid the hens and the hens learn to not go out of their way to attack the chicks.

Oooohh now I understand. Folks talk about wire and the babies running through it; I get it now.

So here's what I'm going to do. I had been thinking about putting them all in the old, commercial silly-coop but dh thinks it's just not as safe; it isn't predator-proof and just two nights ago there were 3 possums on the prowl. So... I'll leave mama up top in a nesting box and she'll just have to deal with the others encroaching - which they are definitely doing. I went in just now and a second hen was literally sitting on the broody's head. Mama wasn't having any of it; not bunching. I shooed the hen, all hunched up from literally laying that egg, next door. Broody never moved an inch.

So I'll leave her up there until a couple days out, then move them all downstairs - the drop is more than 3 feet - I'll measure it but it's probably 4 feet and the ramp isn't great. And I'll set up chicken wire underneath the house so they'll be protected there. I'll make a little peel-back door there so the mother can get out, leave their food back there, etc. I have a large box I'll move in for her down below (old piece of furniture, a bookshelf component maybe?). That hen actually often used to go lay there preferentially, just less drama. So I know she likes it.

I'll post better pictures. There's time

 

[aliris]

Hi everyone - checking back on day 18. I am a nervous wreck, lol. This all feels very hard to understand moving through it for the first time!

Here's what we've done, just babystepping through what feels right.

This mama is one dedicated chicken. I do not think she leaves her nest and so, while I understand it's maybe not advisable, I have taken to removing her every day at about 4pm when it's still warm but I've given her a chance to go out on her own. She's just not taking it without the push.

So out she goes (lifted from the back of the box which opens with a side gate), carefully lifted off the clutch, legs pinned. Here's a picture of the back of the box. I ducktaped up the side to help make sure no eggs roll out. It's hard to understand this picture but she's in mid-resettlement mode, rolling the eggs underneath her; her head's between her legs, lol.

She's in the middle of three boxes on the side of the enclosed house. I'm having a hard time taking a good picture. This shows the interior of the enclosed house; there is a attached run and the totality of these spaces is predator proof. I have the doors open to see in. The crate you see is what is visible from the back in the picture above:

The laying boxes are built onto the side of the enclosed box, on the left of this picture, out of sight (see below); the crate is positioned in front of the box opening. It gives her a little more room where I have a waterer and a little bowl of food. She could leave if she wants but it makes her space more "defensible" from the other hens.

I do not think she ever leaves until I remove her. She spends a half hour frantically preening and dust bathing. I toss some seeds and scratch in front of her and she gobbles those. No water, I have never seen her take any water, but the small waterer's level does go down. But after the first days of prodigious, wet poops, she's down to practically nothing and clearly it's not moving well.

What I'm all worried about is how to manage the chicks should any of them actually emerge. I haven't candled any, but they all blaze heat and there is no smell. I wonder if a developing egg gets _heavier_ - is that possible?? You probably can't make matter from out of nowhere, so - probably not?

Anyway, after pondering using an old coop for the new family, or penning them in down below in the palace (the predator proof inside-outside contraption where they are all now at night and for laying and feeding), moving the mother, etc, this is what I've decided on. I would appreciate correction if this plan has flaws!! ty...

1) If/when an egg starts to crack, I'll close the door on the enclosed upper house to exclude the other hens. They obviously lay in there now, but there's an old bookshelf outside the palace altogether making for one additional, "unregulated" laying box, plus I could open up the old coop which has a couple laying boxes, I will guess the other hens will find a place for their eggs there? Here's the bookshelf, and the old coop over two hen's shoulders - you can't see it well, and it's usually closed up, but I will open it up as alternate laying space:

Ah, at last, a picture of the side-car boxes....

2) I presume that if/once any eggs open and a chick emerges, removing the mama from atop the remaining eggs/chick/s for ablutions would be a bad idea. So that will stop.

3) I'll add a little food bowl of chick starter feed if/when they hatch, and place that in the crate. And the whole upper house will be closed up excluding the other hens from it.

4) The other hens will have free range of the lower half of the predator-free palace (that's where their food is, but during the day they free range and just return for food and water there) and at night I'll close off that big outer palace door (with adults inside). They'll just have to perch outside the house but still inside the predator-proof palace. They're perfectly happy to do that, I think they spend more nights outside than in.

5) After the mama takes her chick/s "off the nest" I'll take the adult food outside the palace (from downstairs) during the day and exclude all the adults but the mama during the day. The while flock can all see each other but one does pick on the mama a bit when she bathes so I worry about her with the chicks. dh made a special "chick ramp" with closely-spaced grips so the chicks can go up and down, though it's a long way! I think you can see that in one of the pictures above.

I don't know how long this can go on, but I think it might work? I was worried about moving the mama and eggs down below, thought of chicken-wiring them off underneath the house... I think that's too complicated. And perhaps unnecessary. The adults can all be in the outside predator-proof place at night, and during the day their food can be placed outside for them and additional boxes made available.

Does this plan seem like it might work?

I'm trying hard not to count my chickens before they're hatched. But I'd better get some food in case they do!!

Also - how on earth to deal with vaccination??? Is this something a layman can do? I'm guessing there are threads about this....

Yikes I am nervous....

The incubating eggs are super-shiny. I am guessing this is from mama's seemingly-conditioned feathers? She spends all her bathtime preening and I'm guessing she must be putting some sort of waterproofing goo on the feathers which must up the humidity beneath her and coat the eggs?? She is quite a furnace! What a marathon!

Are conscientious broodies generally good, instructive mamas?

Thanks for any help, tips, corrections, thoughts, etc....

 

[Perris]

OK, you've written a lot in one post, so I'll tackle them one at a time as I can.

First, you've done great, but are now coming into the lockdown phase, where she will stop turning the eggs and just sit tight until they hatch. Do not disturb her or the eggs henceforth; just let her get on with it and trust her instincts. If you interfere with the orientation of the eggs during the hatch, you could kill the chick inside. They are getting into position to start breathing in the air sac and then break out through the membrane and shell. Just leave them alone.

She does not need to get off to eat, drink or poop while the hatch is ongoing, though she may feel the urge for any of those things and if she can satisfy them quickly, she will. So put fresh clean water nearby and don't worry about food and poop; let her decide when and if to get off the eggs from now. She will maintain the right temperature and humidity for the hatching chicks. Do not lift her off.

 

[Perris]

I haven't candled any, but they all blaze heat and there is no smell. I wonder if a developing egg gets _heavier_ - is that possible?? You probably can't make matter from out of nowhere, so - probably not?

Hot and no smell sounds fine. They lose weight during incubation.

1) If/when an egg starts to crack, I'll close the door on the enclosed upper house to exclude the other hens. They obviously lay in there now,

Stop the other hens getting in now. They can fatally disrupt the hatch too.

 

[Perris]

I'll add a little food bowl of chick starter feed if/when they hatch, and place that in the crate.

You don't need to rush with that. The last stage of development is absorption of the yolk, which will feed the chick for 3 days or thereabouts, a mechanism that evolved to ensure early hatched chicks have sustenance while waiting for the late hatching chicks in the clutch.
The one that will really need food is the broody. When she brings them off the nest, make her your priority.
A shallow bowl of water with marbles or little stones in it will stop chicks drowning in it.

 

[Perris]

the other bridges we can cross when we get to them. For now, just sit on your hands. I know it's hard. If curiosity is really bugging you, go stand quietly nearby and just listen. If you're lucky, you'll hear very feint cheeping. Momma and babies will be starting to communicate to bond, and the chicks to each other to coordinate their hatch. eta, yes, cheeping inside the shell, as soon as they've broken into the air sac.