OK Dispute with installer??

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

The guy was reasonable with DH. DH was reasonable with him. They both felt like they were getting shafted by the sales dude and worked out a way to get what they wanted and turn it back on the sales dude. DH and installer guy are cutting out the middle man for any further jobs.....









They bonded over military vet stuff and BYC!! Turns out his wife hangs here - he can't be all bad now can he?

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
Placing a lein on the house requires that they have a signed contract. To be able to collect on it, they must perform the work that the contract specifies. However, it might have to be solved in court if y'all cannot negotiate getting the work done properly. NEVER pay the final installment until the work is satisfactorily completed.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I have WHAT in my yard? :

Guy came back after DH was home and they worked it out......

I hadn't paid attention because he was supposed to be home.....

The problem with caveat emptor is that everyone has to be an expert on everything. It is simply not feasible. Now I have to know cell phone service, cable services, and now electricity generation. C'mon already. We cannot all be an expert on everything. There has to be some protection for the consumer.

There is: licensed and bonded contractors. Getting a permit and inspections when required. Using a company that has a long history of satisfied customers. Checking references: were they satisfied with the work? were there any problems with the work that cropped up later? would they hire them again?​

 

[Joz]

I'm renovating my house, and have had all new plumbing put in. We've not yet installed the kitchen because the interior needed to be gutted. For the longest time I just had a hot and cold water line poking into the room.

The plumber wanted to finish up our job, but I needed him to stub out the lines for the fixtures before I could install the drywall (so I could paint and have the floors redone so I could build the cabinet that the sink goes on so that the plumber could complete his contract). So he comes out and puts the bits on that come out of the wall that the fixtures will eventually link to.

I looked at it for 2 days before I realized he'd not installed any shutoff valves below the (eventual) sink.

I checked the State and International plumbing codes to see if he'd done correctly. My interpretation of both codes was that every fixture needed a shutoff, tho there were exceptions for bathtubs and showers (frequently a wall mounted fixture). Now, my kitchen sink has wall mounted faucets, but the exception specifically exempts bathtubs, not sinks.

So I called up the plumber to ask.

When I didn't accept his "Nope, you don't need 'em", and mentioned that the code seemed to say otherwise, I was cut off and told that I had no place nosing around in the plumbing codes, that he had 40 years of experience and he was doing it right and I was an interfering b*tch.

It was implied that, as a mere homeowner (and a woman, at that!), I am not allowed to do my due diligence and verify that the work being done on my home is to code, that it is safe, that it will be sell-able without costly improvements down the line.

So I'll let him finish it as he sees fit, and when the inspector comes out, I'll ask him (with copies of the codes in hand). If the inspection fails, the plumber can either do the work, or I can hire someone else to do so using the money he's still owed. And if the inspector passes the installation as-is, I'm going to the Inspector General. I either want the shutoffs the code requires, or a good explanation of why my installation is exempted.

(The punchline - tho it rather misses the point - is that I'm not-quite-an-architect (5 years college, masters degree, 13 years experience, but no exams yet). I work for a forensic architecture firm. We go out to buildings and determine what's wrong (usually: why they leak), what was built incorrectly, what code was in play at the time, and who is responsible for the situation. My day-to-day duties involve looking things up in various codes and manuals, and designing appropriate fixes.)

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

Quote:
There is: licensed and bonded contractors. Getting a permit and inspections when required. Using a company that has a long history of satisfied customers. Checking references: were they satisfied with the work? were there any problems with the work that cropped up later? would they hire them again?

This worked out, but you can do all of this and still not have good results.

In most states if you check BBB or courts for complaints you have to check one county at a time and all the contractor needs to do is move over one county and their record looks clear. Many declare bankruptcy so as to not have to pay claims, then they close down that business and open another in a new name. To be really sure you need to check financials on the principles of a company, and in some areas that is actually illegal.

With our original builder we checked references, went to other job sites, ran financials on the company and yes even on the main owner and still got the shaft. I have seen contractors show licenses and bonding paperwork that was phony. I have seen phony references. People can proactively protect themselves and still be victimized. Yet, they get blamed by people who insist that there must have been something else they should have could have done to prevent it.

There needs to be more protection for consumers. (This applies to cell phones etc as well as builder contractors.)

 

[NellaBean]

The whole taking advantage of the situation because you a woman thing drives me crazy. I had a guy come out once trying to sell me an aerial photo of my property. It was neat and all, but not $120 neat. I declined and thanked him...........and then he asked to speak to my husband instead. Ha ha hahahaha......I let him know that I make the money decisions around here and thank you and have a good one...then I moved through the gate and behind the line of angry dogs. End of conversation. Even if I wanted to buy it, he would have lost the sale right then and there.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I have WHAT in my yard? :

Quote:
There is: licensed and bonded contractors. Getting a permit and inspections when required. Using a company that has a long history of satisfied customers. Checking references: were they satisfied with the work? were there any problems with the work that cropped up later? would they hire them again?

This worked out, but you can do all of this and still not have good results.

In most states if you check BBB or courts for complaints you have to check one county at a time and all the contractor needs to do is move over one county and their record looks clear. Many declare bankruptcy so as to not have to pay claims, then they close down that business and open another in a new name. To be really sure you need to check financials on the principles of a company, and in some areas that is actually illegal.

With our original builder we checked references, went to other job sites, ran financials on the company and yes even on the main owner and still got the shaft. I have seen contractors show licenses and bonding paperwork that was phony. I have seen phony references. People can proactively protect themselves and still be victimized. Yet, they get blamed by people who insist that there must have been something else they should have could have done to prevent it.

There needs to be more protection for consumers. (This applies to cell phones etc as well as builder contractors.)​

Can't say for all states, but in Arizona contractors are required to be licensed and bonded by the state. County has nothing to do with it. Their business cards and advertisements MUST include their license number, which can be verified on the Registrar of Contractor's (a state agency) website. Unlicensed contractors must state on all advertisements and business cards that they are not a licensed contractor. On the Registrar of Contractor's website you can make sure they have the proper license for the job, and that it is current. The bond provides up to $1 million protection to their contractees. If a contractor does NOT have a license, he cannot legally charge more than $1000, including all labor and material (excepting electrical appliances that connect via a two or three prong plug). If you sign a contract with an unlicensed contractor for an amount in excess of $1000, YOU ARE NOT LEGALLY LIABLE for any amount in excess of $1K.

However, that $1 million bond must be split between all contractees who suffer a loss from a licensed contractor, and recovery of funds can take months. I know of two people who went through all the proper due diligence and still got left high and dry with contractors who skipped town. Both recovered significant funds, but less than their loss.

 

[cluckcluck42]

We had an installer out recently to reattach some phone lines. He leaves the phone line in the middle of the road, in the middle of winter. The guy who plows our road almost ran over it. If it had snowed he wouldn't have seen it. We called to complain, got passed around 5 times because we're in Quebec and no one can speak a word of english. They say someone is coming out tomorrow to fix it. We had to hang it ourself temporarily because it's been three weeks and still no one has showed and probably never will.

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

Quote:
This worked out, but you can do all of this and still not have good results.

In most states if you check BBB or courts for complaints you have to check one county at a time and all the contractor needs to do is move over one county and their record looks clear. Many declare bankruptcy so as to not have to pay claims, then they close down that business and open another in a new name. To be really sure you need to check financials on the principles of a company, and in some areas that is actually illegal.

With our original builder we checked references, went to other job sites, ran financials on the company and yes even on the main owner and still got the shaft. I have seen contractors show licenses and bonding paperwork that was phony. I have seen phony references. People can proactively protect themselves and still be victimized. Yet, they get blamed by people who insist that there must have been something else they should have could have done to prevent it.

There needs to be more protection for consumers. (This applies to cell phones etc as well as builder contractors.)

Can't say for all states, but in Arizona contractors are required to be licensed and bonded by the state. County has nothing to do with it. Their business cards and advertisements MUST include their license number, which can be verified on the Registrar of Contractor's (a state agency) website. Unlicensed contractors must state on all advertisements and business cards that they are not a licensed contractor. On the Registrar of Contractor's website you can make sure they have the proper license for the job, and that it is current. The bond provides up to $1 million protection to their contractees. If a contractor does NOT have a license, he cannot legally charge more than $1000, including all labor and material (excepting electrical appliances that connect via a two or three prong plug). If you sign a contract with an unlicensed contractor for an amount in excess of $1000, YOU ARE NOT LEGALLY LIABLE for any amount in excess of $1K.

However, that $1 million bond must be split between all contractees who suffer a loss from a licensed contractor, and recovery of funds can take months. I know of two people who went through all the proper due diligence and still got left high and dry with contractors who skipped town. Both recovered significant funds, but less than their loss.

Absolutely not the law in PA. Maybe it would help if it was.

 

[PineappleMama]

I'd have said NO, and if he tried to bully his way into my home he'd have been treated like any other trespasser... that is to say NOT in a friendly, welcoming manner.

He had the choice, in the beginning, to do the job contracted for or not... he chose not to. He chose to settle for verbal info rather than written, and here's the consequences. If the WRITTEN info wasn't correct he should have waited until it was. Instead he was in a rush and now you've got this mess to deal with.

Don't let that guy try and blame you because he chose to ignore common sense in contracts.