Ok I'm going to go on a little rant here. Has to do with breeders.

[farmerlor]

Yeah, I have to say that it was important to me to know that my Beltsvilles were coming from the original blood lines. With some of my birds that won't matter but with heritage breeds and some show breeds I can see where people would want to know where the birds came from even if we know that the birds since may have been chosen to breed for different traits than the original.

 

[SundownWaterfowl]

Quote:
If they ask me, "What lines do you silkies come from?". I will let them know. But Im not going to advertise it.

 

[cgmccary]

flyingmonkeyp:I know what you mean. I have bought birds that look great and everything, look alot like my birds but they come from other lines. When I bred my birds with the new line I got a couple surpises.

I dont like it when people use other breeders to sell their eggs by saying they are from such and such lines. When I sell birds I simply sell them as they are, I say these eggs are from my line of birds that have won at shows and that kind of thing. I get emails asking what lines they are from and I tell them.

To me it doesnt matter where they are from as long as they meet the standard or look like I want them to for a project. For example I will use goats. There is a big breeder in the area with great Nubians. Well a few years back someone bred their deformed doe to that persons buck and the kids came out hideous and didnt look right at all but they sold them because they were sired by the good breeders buck. Then when the person that bought the kids went to show them at fair they bragged that they were from the great breeder and when the breeder found out they were ticked because the person was using their name and reputation to sell poor quality animals. So even though they claim they are from hattrick lines doesnt mean they are good birds.

I disagree with you. Starting with good bloodlines, even if the stock from the bloodline is not the best, is paramount. If you are breeding with purpose, it is equally imperative you know the history of your birds. You should outcross with a specific purpose in mind. Do not breed a fault back to a fault. If you "outcross" to a completely different strain, realize that the 1st & maybe the 2nd generation is going to be all over the place (remember your purpose for the outcross).

I dont like it when people use other breeders to sell their eggs by saying they are from such and such lines.

Perhaps, people are not using other breeders to sell their eggs but letting you know the history of their birds which you should want to know. Is there another way of keeping up with it? Also, you could show me the parents (and tell me nothing about your stock's history) and the parents may look perfect SQ, but they may not produce good off spring. Perhaps, those "parents" were an anomaly. I am more interested in the strain. I don't see the big deal in the original poster's criticism.

StrawberryHouse: But it only takes one breeding outside of a specific line of chickens to create something that looks completely different from the line you started with when you bred it to something else.

There can be different lines of the same strain. When you outcross, you should be aiming to improve your birds (i.e. the outcross bird you are breeding to has something you are looking to add to your own). That first generation, YES, is going to be all over the place, but you are after one thing-- the outcross' asset. Because it is a different line (or bigger, "strain"), it can produce very wild results-- but you're after the strength of the outcross. This isn't diminishing the "line (or strain) originator's contribution" or insulting the "line." OUTCROSSING: IT SHOULDN'T LOOK THE SAME. The purpose of getting and crossing birds is to strength something about your birds (or in my case, to give me some genetic diversity). I don't see your point, StrawberryH, that's all. I will continue to want to know where your stock is from (when I do outcross again many years down the road). It will be important to me.​

 

[StrawberryHouseMouse]

Thats how I feel too Sundown.
For all we know, cause the person in that add did not show the silkies he claims is hattrick, they could be hidious looking. Hatchery silkies possibly, and his site he lists has no other photos. Its really unfair to the breeders at hattrick silkies that someone does something like that.

 

[StrawberryHouseMouse]

Alright let me just clarify something for you then cgmccary. We are talking about someone who is showing no photos of the silkies in question. We are not talking about someone trying to improve lines of something they already have. When buying birds you want to use in your breeding project, you buy a bird that fits your idea of what your going for. Weither it be a big crest, or perfect toe seperation, perhaps a certain color. That is what you buy. But the person that triggered my rant, is not doing that are they? No. And that is what Im against. This person is not showing photos of the parents, they are not showing proof of owning any hattrick silkies and they really are disrespecting us by assuming we would be stupid enough to buy eggs from birds we havent even seen before. Someone who goes out and buys silkies or any other breed, with the soul purpose of just getting eggs out of them to sell and not even bothering to perfect the adults first so that they can offer something worth the money they are asking, is just scum in my opinion.

 

[cgmccary]

If they ask me, "What lines do you silkies come from?". I will let them know. But Im not going to advertise it.

I breed a Heritage breed and do not breed Silkies. With a heritage breed, it is very important to know the origin of the birds and one SHOULD advertize it. I apologize if this is NOT so with Silkies. I do not know Silkies and realize the rules could be different.​

 

[LoupGarou]

Quote:
But that's an entirely different argument, isn't it? This person is apparently unethical, regardless of whose lines s/he claims to have birds from. It has nothing to do with stating what lines those birds are from and nothing to do with being a breeder.

Mini-rant of my own:

It's "being disrespectful to," not "disrespecting." That little gem needs to go the way of "gifting" and other insults to the English language.

</mini-rant>

 

[Beekissed]

I would venture to say that it is the same with any animal being bred for specific traits or purity of breed characteristics. Chickens would be no different.

If you are breeding from a noted line or stud, then you generally advertise that your breeding originates from a line that holds that breed characteristics. Any serious breeder will ask about bloodlines from both sides, so advertising this is pretty standard with any type of seed stock. If you advertise you have stock from a Hattrick line, then interested buyers will explore your lines if the Hattrick line is desirable to them.

Its not stealing from the Hattrick line's fame, it is actually adding to it. If the buyer doesn't like the results of your breeding, then they no longer purchase from the line you are developing by using the Hattrick cross. If they really want Hattrick lines, they will go directly to Hattrick's themselves. That's just the way it goes, whether chickens, horses, dogs, cattle, cats, pigs,etc. A serious breeder will explore both lines to decide if those traits are what they are wanting. A smart buyer will see the words "from the Hattrick line" and look at the breeder...if his name is not Hattrick, then it only follows that you are not buying from Hattrick at that point.

Genetics are pretty much the same with all species....you use good genetics from both sides and hope for the best. Sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. You cull and try again or instill another line of genetics into developing the animal you want.

 

[StrawberryHouseMouse]

Unfortuantly with silkies its not the same. Knowing the lines are not nessisary. Even though some people ask for the history of the bird's lines. Its really not that nessisary. When you buy silkies you buy what you see to be what you want. Silkies have been mixed with other breeds over the years. Polish mainly, to get the heavy crests that they have today in good breeder's birds. But it is important to good breeders that the work they strive towards over the years is not messed up by someone else's greed and stupidity.

But people do abuse the original breeder's title by using thier name. Its ok to say when someone asks, "oh where did you get your pretty birds" .. "oh I got them through mixing such and such's birds with this other person's" but this isnt the same situation. So I understand some people's point of view when it comes to claiming lines from where you got your silkies from. You want the best and thats understandable.

 

[speckledhen]

I am not a Silkie person, and Lord knows I don't understand the attraction, but I am starting to build a flock of qualilty Delawares. If I acquired more birds or hatched them here from a breeder's eggs, I want to know that my birds have a lineage from McDaniel or Meier or one of the other not so common breeders of quality Dels so I know that they didnt come from a hatchery and therefore, are possibly carrying Columbian Rock blood. That doesn't mean I will have all show quality Dels nor that mine are completely from one line or another, but it does tell people that they will be getting true heritage Delawares and not some cheap hatchery imitation. And I certainly hope I am not run out of town on a rail if I mention their lineage. And even if you get them directly from Hattrick, you know that a true show quality bird is not the result every time.