Old Fashioned Broody Hen Hatch A Long and Informational Thread

[bumpercarr]

Little Runt appears alive and well this morning

...although still a bit slower than the siblings...which I think should be expected due to hatch time difference and a rough start...but he/she was tucked safely under Momma Silkie on AM check, and ran around with the others when I lifted Momma.

However, upon looking under Momma, the egg that was partially hatched yesterday, and which she was SO protective of yesterday, was still only partially hatched, peeping less vigorously, and mom seemed less concerned... even getting up to check me for treats and kicking dust shavings into the partially hatched egg.

Oh boy...I hate these types of decisions...since I've had lousy luck with late hatchers once the older siblings start to move around, I took that egg and brought it into the house. The membranes were dry and the chick about 1/4 to 1/2 exposed but appeared glued to the shell and membrane...fearing a shrink wrap situation arising, I threw caution to the wind (believing it had better luck with me than back with mom and the awakening siblings) and helped a bit more with the egg and the chick. I gently kept chipping dry glue away, with the chick pushing and peeping, checking to make sure no veins were live (which they weren't...it was all dry). I eventually got it out, for better or worse of me.

However, while the yolk sac was completely absorbed, and that area looks pretty good, the chick does have a sealed but protuding naval which was stuck to very dry umbilical....so I doused the naval area with Chlorhexiderm and put this baby in the mini-incubator to dry. I fear I may have rushed things a bit for it...or not....but I've simply not had good luck with chicks if they don't hatch with the others but linger in the shells half hatched for more than half a day...to date I've lost every one of those "late bloomers" so I decided to be more aggressive with this one....hopefully I've helped and not hindered....Now I've set myself up to figure out what to do with a chick with a protuding naval...hopefully upon drying the neval will completely recede or dry and fall off like a human's. (Guess I'll find out).

@Sydney Acres you've done a lot of hatching with broodies and incubators with a hands on approach...what are your experiences with an assisted hatch like this?

So...the saga continues....as of the moment 3 hatched and looking good and with Momma, 1 drying in the mini-incubator, and 1 egg in another mini-incubator that had movement last night but no more progression or movement this morning.

Whew...all to get a breed I can't get here locally. I've NEVER had this much problem with locally supplied eggs...I wonder if it is just the luck of the draw or the effects of eggs being shook across country? Or genetics of the line? Hmmmmm.

I'll post hopefully good news and pics soon.

Lady of McCamley

You've been working pretty hard at this hatch, I'm so happy for you that things are looking up! You are a great chicken mom! Sorry, I can't answer your question. I only have a few broody hatches under me and I've really never experienced anything like you are going through.

My news, even with horrible incubator problems, I managed to hatch 4 of my shipped dark brahma eggs. I really did not expect them to hatch, I didn't even have the brooder ready! Of course, in the way that things go, my parents were having problems so I needed to fly to Florida almost immediately after they hatched. I have a great house sitter that will try her best to make sure the chicks are warm, fed and watered properly, but really can't handle any problems if they arise. So, I'll be very relieved to get home on Saturday!

 

[fisherlady]

You've been working pretty hard at this hatch, I'm so happy for you that things are looking up! You are a great chicken mom! Sorry, I can't answer your question. I only have a few broody hatches under me and I've really never experienced anything like you are going through.

My news, even with horrible incubator problems, I managed to hatch 4 of my shipped dark brahma eggs. I really did not expect them to hatch, I didn't even have the brooder ready! Of course, in the way that things go, my parents were having problems so I needed to fly to Florida almost immediately after they hatched. I have a great house sitter that will try her best to make sure the chicks are warm, fed and watered properly, but really can't handle any problems if they arise. So, I'll be very relieved to get home on Saturday!

Congrats on the 4 brahmas! I hope all goes better for your folks... family comes first.

Glad you have a good house sitter to fill in, that can be such a weight off of your mind. Even if she doesn't have the experience for emergencies the peace of mind you get just knowing she is able to care for the basics is worth it's weight in gold when you need to be focusing on helping out the parents!

 

[daniellea2912]

At what age do you all start letting momma and chicks roost with the rest of the flock? The chick my broody has is 4 1/2 weeks old and is almost all feathered in. I've had the mom and chick as well as my 6 brooder chicks seperated into the run with access to their own small area inside the coop for the last week or so but have been bringing them inside at night. My broody has been increasingly upset with me each night when I bring her in- she really wants to roost. Tonight returned to find she and the chick had escaped the grow out pen and were on the roost with the rest of the flock. I debated for a long time whether to just leave them there or not :/ I decided against it, and she wasn't thrilled. I know I am not ready for them to go with the rest of the flock during the day since the rest are pastured and I feel like they are too tiny not to be in the more secure run, but you all think they would be ok with the flock overnight in the coop??

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Isn't it great to have confirmation that you "done good?" If it would have gone the other way, you'd be beating yourself up, right?

So true.

Little Saran wasn't strong enough to make it out today with momma after my first attempt. I decided to try in the late afternoon when the sun is hitting that coop and keeps it cozy, and then watch, rather than try to place tonight and risk finding a dead chick in the morning. Good thing as after about an hour, I found Little Saran stretched flat in front of mom, limp but still moving when touched....so back to a makeshift brooding box to try when Saran is a little older and stronger. Hopefully Saran will strengthen...it is taking Chick Saver from the dropper now...I've never had to force feed it, so that is a good sign. And it does move about and cheep vigorously...just weak and wobbly yet from the hatching. Maybe in a day or so Saran can return with the others.



But Little Runt who I saved yesterday is now integrated back with siblings and my Silkie Mom, and seems to be doing okay.






Lady of McCamley

 

[Sydney Acres]

Little Shrink Wrap (or Saran) is drying nicely and very vigorously chirping and moving about. I'm watching the naval (actually umbilical cord stub), which appears to be nicely drying and receding too...reading more on it, I read that naval protrudes which only involve the umbilical stem and not the actual yolk sac, with an enclosed abdomen, should just dry and drop off. The risk is during the drying process as bacteria can enter the raw cord area...so treating it with Chlorhexiderm and giving it a more sanitary location to dry off was probably the best thing to do as mom was shifting about with the older 3 kicking shavings dust into the open egg shell...hopefully my gut instincts were right then to assist hatch as those membranes were getting tougher by the second for a bird that wasn't looking like it was going to break through the glue. We've had some goofy weather changes with hot one day and pouring rain the next...unclosed, unhealed navals, and shrink wrapping are caused by differing humidity and heat conditions...sounds about right. Hopefully that was all it was.

Here's a photo of Saran in the mini-incubator stretching its legs and vigorously chirping. Saran should be ready for return to Momma soon!

A cautiously but very hopeful Lady of McCamley

Look what a fabulous setup you've created! It's like a little chick ICU. I've really never thought about getting a mini-incubator until I saw this picture.

Lady of McCamley, I appreciate the tremendous compliment in your previous post, but I actually have no experience with hatching at all. This is the first year I've even tried it, both with a broody hen and an incubator at the same time, but it was quite early in the year and none of the eggs developed at all (possibly infertile, possibly got a bit cold during storage, definitely didn't know enough at the time to properly use the borrowed incubator with inadequate instructions). What I have is an excellent wildlife biology and animal science education (thank you UC Davis), a long career caring for multiple species, a tremendous love and respect for my chickens and turkeys, the willingness to observe their behavior until it makes sense, and the ability to learn lots of different details from multiple sources, then put them all together and present the coalesced information back in an articulate manner. I've had chickens for 16 years, heritage turkeys for one year, and brooded lots of shipped chicks and poults successfully, but this is my first year even trying to hatch my own, now that I have some good quality birds. Much of what I've learned, and have then be able to pass on to other people on multiple threads, I've learned from you and others on this thread. I then kind of massage it around in my brain, apply a few other details from other sources, and it later comes back out with my own individual spin.

You're absolutely right about the navel situation. The undried navel stump in a chick is much like the umbilical cord in mammals, and is a huge portal to infection before it dries. The most common cause of death in hatched chicks (other than husbandry mistakes, like getting chilled) is infection of the umbilicus. A major exposure in any chick, or even a minor exposure in a stressed chick, spreads infection throughout the body, usually affecting all the internal organs. That is the most common cause of chicks that die 2-3 days after shipping. They seem fine when they arrive, they eat and drink well, then suddenly they become listless and they die fairly quickly, anywhere from 1-72 hours after the first sign of illness. Those chicks usually had the most minor of exposures at the breeder, maybe the hatcher didn't get adequately disinfected, or someone didn't wash their hands before they handled the chick, or the outside of the eggshell wasn't clean and the chick touched it, or a million other things. The chick would have been fine except that it then got shipped, and the immature immune system couldn't handle the stress, and that allowed the minor infection to grow over the next few days. Unfortunately, if it comes from a hatchery or a breeder that uses lots of antibiotics, the bacteria is often antibiotic resistant. I haven't lost many chicks that arrived alive, but the few that have died I always have necropsied and internally cultured for bacteria. Every single one has had antibiotic resistant bacterial infections throughout their organs.

I totally agree with everything you've done. The chick was going to die if it was shrink wrapped and couldn't escape the egg. You could have moistened the membrane with a Q-tip (being very careful not to drown the chick), then wrapped the egg in a moist paper towel and put it in the incubator to hatch on its own, but it may not have been strong enough after all this time. As long as you were careful not to tear any vessels, assisted hatching is probably the best way to save a shrink wrapped chick that is too weak to continue the hatching process. You disinfected the navel with a good product, and started the chick warming and drying. I think you've done great. While getting the chick back to the hen asap is important to allow bonding and minimize the chicks stress, I would make sure the naval has been dry at least 18 hours before putting it back with the hen, as looking dry on the outside doesn't mean it's fully dry through and through. It may be worthwhile disinfecting it every 2-4 hours until then, being careful not to get the chick too messy with repeated applications. Also, watch the chick very carefully for the next week, as infection can simmer for a while before symptoms appear.

A few reminders about caring for sick infants. First, always wash your hands before handling them. Even though the broody doesn't wash her feet and take a bath every time before touching the chicks, the bacteria on our clean looking hands can be easily transferred, and often is more dangerous to the baby than what it would be exposed to in the nest. So unless it's an emergency to get to the little one, it's worth the extra few minutes. Also, don't forget that their brains are set up to have a certain environment in the beginning -- not just temperature, but certain sounds, smells, social structure, etc. Anything you can do to duplicate that will decrease their stress, which will allow their immune system to work better, which increases their survival. I have a recording of a happy broody talking to her clutch that I play for the chicks I brood -- they really like it, even though they don't know what it is, having never had a hen talk to them during incubation. When I have a single chick in a brooder, I put in little chick-sized stuffed animals that it can cuddle with, since flock animals are very stressed when they're alone. (The tiny stuffed animals can be sterilized in an autoclave or a canning pressure cooker as long as there's nothing plastic on it that will melt.) Those sort of things, while time consuming, can make a huge difference to the survival of a tiny sick baby.

Lots of chicks from assisted hatches do great. The chick on this thread, post 3102, belongs to a friend of mine (https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/704328/diary-notes-air-cell-detatched-shipped-eggs/3100). It had a rough start, but it grew into a beautiful, vigorous adult named Yolk. And Amy is so glad she took the time to save Yolk's life. Hopefully little Saran will do as well.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Look what a fabulous setup you've created! It's like a little chick ICU. I've really never thought about getting a mini-incubator until I saw this picture.

Lady of McCamley, I appreciate the tremendous compliment in your previous post, but I actually have no experience with hatching at all. This is the first year I've even tried it, both with a broody hen and an incubator at the same time, but it was quite early in the year and none of the eggs developed at all (possibly infertile, possibly got a bit cold during storage, definitely didn't know enough at the time to properly use the borrowed incubator with inadequate instructions). What I have is an excellent wildlife biology and animal science education (thank you UC Davis), a long career caring for multiple species, a tremendous love and respect for my chickens and turkeys, the willingness to observe their behavior until it makes sense, and the ability to learn lots of different details from multiple sources, then put them all together and present the coalesced information back in an articulate manner. I've had chickens for 16 years, heritage turkeys for one year, and brooded lots of shipped chicks and poults successfully, but this is my first year even trying to hatch my own, now that I have some good quality birds. Much of what I've learned, and have then be able to pass on to other people on multiple threads, I've learned from you and others on this thread. I then kind of massage it around in my brain, apply a few other details from other sources, and it later comes back out with my own individual spin.

You're absolutely right about the navel situation. The undried navel stump in a chick is much like the umbilical cord in mammals, and is a huge portal to infection before it dries. The most common cause of death in hatched chicks (other than husbandry mistakes, like getting chilled) is infection of the umbilicus. A major exposure in any chick, or even a minor exposure in a stressed chick, spreads infection throughout the body, usually affecting all the internal organs. That is the most common cause of chicks that die 2-3 days after shipping. They seem fine when they arrive, they eat and drink well, then suddenly they become listless and they die fairly quickly, anywhere from 1-72 hours after the first sign of illness. Those chicks usually had the most minor of exposures at the breeder, maybe the hatcher didn't get adequately disinfected, or someone didn't wash their hands before they handled the chick, or the outside of the eggshell wasn't clean and the chick touched it, or a million other things. The chick would have been fine except that it then got shipped, and the immature immune system couldn't handle the stress, and that allowed the minor infection to grow over the next few days. Unfortunately, if it comes from a hatchery or a breeder that uses lots of antibiotics, the bacteria is often antibiotic resistant. I haven't lost many chicks that arrived alive, but the few that have died I always have necropsied and internally cultured for bacteria. Every single one has had antibiotic resistant bacterial infections throughout their organs.

I totally agree with everything you've done. The chick was going to die if it was shrink wrapped and couldn't escape the egg. You could have moistened the membrane with a Q-tip (being very careful not to drown the chick), then wrapped the egg in a moist paper towel and put it in the incubator to hatch on its own, but it may not have been strong enough after all this time. As long as you were careful not to tear any vessels, assisted hatching is probably the best way to save a shrink wrapped chick that is too weak to continue the hatching process. You disinfected the navel with a good product, and started the chick warming and drying. I think you've done great. While getting the chick back to the hen asap is important to allow bonding and minimize the chicks stress, I would make sure the naval has been dry at least 18 hours before putting it back with the hen, as looking dry on the outside doesn't mean it's fully dry through and through. It may be worthwhile disinfecting it every 2-4 hours until then, being careful not to get the chick too messy with repeated applications. Also, watch the chick very carefully for the next week, as infection can simmer for a while before symptoms appear.

A few reminders about caring for sick infants. First, always wash your hands before handling them. Even though the broody doesn't wash her feet and take a bath every time before touching the chicks, the bacteria on our clean looking hands can be easily transferred, and often is more dangerous to the baby than what it would be exposed to in the nest. So unless it's an emergency to get to the little one, it's worth the extra few minutes. Also, don't forget that their brains are set up to have a certain environment in the beginning -- not just temperature, but certain sounds, smells, social structure, etc. Anything you can do to duplicate that will decrease their stress, which will allow their immune system to work better, which increases their survival. I have a recording of a happy broody talking to her clutch that I play for the chicks I brood -- they really like it, even though they don't know what it is, having never had a hen talk to them during incubation. When I have a single chick in a brooder, I put in little chick-sized stuffed animals that it can cuddle with, since flock animals are very stressed when they're alone. (The tiny stuffed animals can be sterilized in an autoclave or a canning pressure cooker as long as there's nothing plastic on it that will melt.) Those sort of things, while time consuming, can make a huge difference to the survival of a tiny sick baby.

Lots of chicks from assisted hatches do great. The chick on this thread, post 3102, belongs to a friend of mine (https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/704328/diary-notes-air-cell-detatched-shipped-eggs/3100). It had a rough start, but it grew into a beautiful, vigorous adult named Yolk. And Amy is so glad she took the time to save Yolk's life. Hopefully little Saran will do as well.

Thank you Sydney...you confirmed what my instincts have been telling me...I was actually looking for a little bean baby to put in with the chick now that I realize it won't be able to go home for a little bit. Don't know if I'll play hen clucking noise as I think that might drive the family a bit nuts since it is in my family room at the moment on the snack bar...but I may put in a little clock for some ticking effect (actually now that I think about it the wall clock is loud enough).

I'll keep applying the Chlorhexiderm with a Qtip. I've got Chick Saver and a broad spectrum antibiotic (Tetracyline) in the water and have been eye dropping every hour or so. It has a little water pan, but I've been tempted to find a rabbit waterer as it has gotten so good at the eye dropper I think it could drink from that. Not attempted any food as I don't think it is ready yet...and at day 1, it shouldn't need food yet.

Anyway thanks for the tips...it confirms what I've learned after 7 years of Guide Dog Puppy raising and working with my daughter as she went through Vet Tech training....I've been raiding her home supply cupboard and drawing on my memory of stuff she did with the stream of animals we've taken care of...and of course my own children....some mothering is simply mothering isn't it.

Yes, it will take time with this little one. The other one I think just got chilled as it recovered very fast, but this little guy is not gaining strength as quickly. Time will tell.

It does make me appreciate the ease of having a broody...normally I would let nature take its course with the broody, but these are special chicks.

Thanks again.
Lady of McCamley

 

[Lady of McCamley]

You've been working pretty hard at this hatch, I'm so happy for you that things are looking up! You are a great chicken mom! Sorry, I can't answer your question. I only have a few broody hatches under me and I've really never experienced anything like you are going through.

My news, even with horrible incubator problems, I managed to hatch 4 of my shipped dark brahma eggs. I really did not expect them to hatch, I didn't even have the brooder ready! Of course, in the way that things go, my parents were having problems so I needed to fly to Florida almost immediately after they hatched. I have a great house sitter that will try her best to make sure the chicks are warm, fed and watered properly, but really can't handle any problems if they arise. So, I'll be very relieved to get home on Saturday!

Congratulations on the 4 dark brahmas...I hope that all will be well when you return...and that your parent's issue will resolve quickly.
Lady of McCamley

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
Very cute Buckeye chicks. And quite a range of down coloring. Since you have such a variety, it'd be wonderful if you could keep track of how each chick feathers out. One person on the Buckeye thread has a line of very dark Buckeyes that produce very darkly downed chicks, and believes that dark down is an indicator of future dark (desirable) feathering. some others feel there is no relationship between the color of down and the color of the feathers. My one single buckeye (there were supposed to be 10, but the breeder was short that week), Buttercup, got her name because she had the yellowest down I've ever seen -- not a hint of brown in it at all. But she ended up fairly dark red. Not as dark as some, but definitely not orangish, and with a nice dark slate feather base.

I wouldn't think that having a problem with 2 chicks hatching would be an indication of poor health or vigor in shipped eggs, especially with these circumstances. Most people report that the hatch rate in shipped eggs is less than 50%, ranging from 0-100%, and is hugely dependent on shipping conditions. So if you got any chicks to hatch out for jostled, gyrated eggs, that in and of itself should be a sign of vigor. If these chicks' offspring also have hatching issues, then there might be a problem in the line. But otherwise I'd just write it off as yet another shipping issue.

 

[Sydney Acres]

You've been working pretty hard at this hatch, I'm so happy for you that things are looking up! You are a great chicken mom! Sorry, I can't answer your question. I only have a few broody hatches under me and I've really never experienced anything like you are going through.

My news, even with horrible incubator problems, I managed to hatch 4 of my shipped dark brahma eggs. I really did not expect them to hatch, I didn't even have the brooder ready! Of course, in the way that things go, my parents were having problems so I needed to fly to Florida almost immediately after they hatched. I have a great house sitter that will try her best to make sure the chicks are warm, fed and watered properly, but really can't handle any problems if they arise. So, I'll be very relieved to get home on Saturday!

Congratulations on the Brahmas. Hopefully you've got one fabulous cockerel and three wonderful pullets that like to brood! Thank goodness for great house sitters, and cell phones for those worried questions. Hope everything turns out well for you, and your parents.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Very cute Buckeye chicks. And quite a range of down coloring. Since you have such a variety, it'd be wonderful if you could keep track of how each chick feathers out. One person on the Buckeye thread has a line of very dark Buckeyes that produce very darkly downed chicks, and believes that dark down is an indicator of future dark (desirable) feathering. some others feel there is no relationship between the color of down and the color of the feathers. My one single buckeye (there were supposed to be 10, but the breeder was short that week), Buttercup, got her name because she had the yellowest down I've ever seen -- not a hint of brown in it at all. But she ended up fairly dark red. Not as dark as some, but definitely not orangish, and with a nice dark slate feather base.

I wouldn't think that having a problem with 2 chicks hatching would be an indication of poor health or vigor in shipped eggs, especially with these circumstances. Most people report that the hatch rate in shipped eggs is less than 50%, ranging from 0-100%, and is hugely dependent on shipping conditions. So if you got any chicks to hatch out for jostled, gyrated eggs, that in and of itself should be a sign of vigor. If these chicks' offspring also have hatching issues, then there might be a problem in the line. But otherwise I'd just write it off as yet another shipping issue.

Good points...and where I am inclined, thankfully, to go....I had a sneaking suspicion the package had not had the greatest of care when the center egg in the carton had a bullseye impact crack...the very center egg mind you...and they all had bubble wrap, then in a carton, then packing peanuts...so they were well packed. I think the eggs got a pretty severe jolt. I only set 10 of the 16 received as 3 of the other 6 had detached air cells...the other 3 were too long in shape or too thick or porous shelled.

Yes, I agree that 40% hatch rate will be on par with shipped (and dropped) eggs. Amazing I got anything at all with the weird weather we've been having this week on top of all that.

Lady of McCamley

EDITED TO ADD: I will try to keep track of who grows up to look like what. I take photo's of their development, so it should be easy to see. I was wondering, and marveling, at the difference in down color. Good to know.