Old Fashioned Broody Hen Hatch A Long and Informational Thread

[Sydney Acres]

I sad to say that little chicky didn't make it.

I stayed up with her but I really think she was just too tired to fight..

I'm so sorry Chickenny. It's so hard to save them when they need an assisted hatch.

 

[fisherlady]

Sydney.... sorry you lost the one chick, but so glad the other 2 are healthy and happy!

Sounds like you will have plenty to keep you very busy in the near future with all of those eggs coming due!
Hope the rest hatch well for you... keep us posted!

 

[bumpercarr]

Well, Hettie's hatch is done, with some happiness and some sadness. Hettie started out with 8 eggs, 5 from the geriatric Langshan flock and 3 from the Red Dorkings -- one each from Ms. MoneyPenny, Sweetie Pie, Hettie herself.

Hettie is a Red Dorking, so a big broody. I take large hens like her off the nest once a day to make sure she exercises enough and clears her lungs, breaths deeply, flaps her wings, stretches, eats, drinks, poops, and dustbathes. My girls are very tame, and they enjoy the company when they come out of their trance once a day. They play and jump all over me as I sit on the ground with them. Hettie did great and maintained condition throughout her brood.

I candled the eggs on day 10, and the 5 Langshan eggs looked clear, which was expected because of the hen's age. I didn't remove them because I'm new to candling and didn't want to make a mistake. The 3 Dorking eggs looked like they had an active embryo. On day 18 I was planning to candle all eggs, remove the clears, and leave Hettie on the nest for the last three days for lockdown. (New research has shown that chicks are actually stronger and more vigorous if the eggs go through some cooling for a short time on days 7-18 of incubation, but are more likely to have malpositioning within the egg if they are cooled during the last 2 days of incubation, which parallels what happens in nature -- the hen gets off the nest 1-2 times a day to take care of herself until the last 2 days of incubation, then sits tight.) So on Day 18 I take Hettie off the nest and leave her in another room with a bowl of food while I go back to candle the eggs. I remove the 5 clear Langshan eggs, and was about to candle the Dorking eggs when I saw a crack in Sweetie Pie's egg. I picked it up and it cheeped at me, and I suddenly realize that the pinpoint "crack" was actually an external pip. I stopped what I was doing, set the egg down in the same position I had found it, and ran to get Hettie. I was a little worried at this point, since this chick was 2 days early and had been subjected to the normal mild chills (it never got cold, as I do cover the eggs with a towel when I take the hen off the nest) of the hen leaving the nest daily for her pre-lockdown breaks. But there was nothing else to do at this point other than monitor the hatch -- if this chick wasn't out in 12-24 hours, I could intervene at that time. That was Sunday evening. The other two eggs had not pipped yet.

So Monday morning I checked on Hettie and she gave me the usual reflexive broody growl, but now she did it several times in a row instead of just the usual single growl followed by a happy-to-see-you look on her face. She was definitely giving me the stink eye now, which she had never done before. I touched her fluff and suddenly it was moving and cheeping back there -- clearly a chick was walking around right where the pipped egg had been last night, so everything was good. I felt around under her briefly and found an unhatched egg easily, but did not find the second unhatched egg or the hatched egg shell.. Oh well, best not to disturb her too much, as I now "knew" that Sweetie Pie's chick had hatched successfully, and was unaffected by the short periods of cooling 2 days before its hatch. As much as I wanted to know exactly what was going on under the hen, I thought it best to let nature do what it does so well, so I didn't intrude too much.

Monday evening there was lots of cheeping under Hettie, and she was back to the single broody growl and the happier facial expression, so I looked under her wing. "Sweetie's chick" came out from the fluff and was so sweet, nuzzling with my hand. I briefly felt underneath Hettie and found an unhatched egg, and also felt a hatched still-wet shell under her fluff.. I assumed the hatched shell was from a second chick because it was still wet. I didn't search any further, as I didn't want to accidentally injure a chick that might still be wet and not moving around yet.

Tuesday morning I checked and found an unhatched egg, the same hatched egg shell that was still slightly moist, and two dry chicks, which have very different down patterns. I pulled out the hatched egg shell and it was from Hettie's egg. I thought that was great -- I could easily tell the difference between "Sweetie's chick" and "Hettie's chick" so no need to put on leg bands so early or ink mark the down, unless "MoneyPenny's chick" looked very similar to either of these. I memorize the down patterns of the two chicks, get some horrible photos (didn't have the right camera with me to get closeup shots), and went to work. I called my husband when he got home at 4 pm to have him check on the broody, and he found "Hettie's chick" outside the nest box, still alive but too weak to stand, and Hettie still in her broody trance, not getting up to help the chick. I couldn't get home for another hour or more, so I have him put the chick under Hettie's wing, and she snuggled it in close. My husband was sure that it was going to die, but I assure him that it probably just got too cold and he found it in time (although I wasn't so sure myself). He also said it really stunk in the room she was in. He's a bit scent-sensitive, so I assumed that it was just broody poo somewhere, and told him I'd deal with it as soon as I got home.

I got home at 5:30 pm and immediately checked on the nest. It REALLY did stink in the room, and not broody poo smell. Something was rotting!! I checked under Hettie's wing and both "Sweetie's and Hettie's chicks" look fine -- standing, cheeping, responding to me petting them, totally normal. I felt under Hettie and found an unhatched egg that had an opening in it and was a little wet -- MoneyPenny's egg was in the middle of hatching, I thought, and about 29 hours early. How wonderful and exciting -- everything was going so well.

But WHAT was that smell??!!! It was horrible, and strong enough to be a bit overpowering! Had a mouse or rat gotten in and died??

I looked around the room a bit but couldn't localize it -- it seemed to be coming from everywhere. Eventually I gave up and decided to go get something for dinner. I walked into the kitchen and my husband recoiled a bit and said that I brought the smell with me. I told him I'd go change clothes, assuming the smell had gotten into material. When I came back into the kitchen he said that the smell was just as bad, so the smell had to be on me. That was impossible -- I hadn't really touched anything except the nest. I put my hand up to my nose and the smell up close was horrendous!! It had to have come from the moisture on the egg. "MoneyPenny's egg" must be rotting.

I went back to the nest and reached under Hettie and removed the egg. OMG it stunk!!! There was brown fluid leaking out of the hole that the chick had pipped, and there were lines of shell cracking and membrane bulging in multiple areas. The only reason it hadn't exploded under the hen was because the pip hole was releasing some of
the pressure. I put it on a towel, washed my hands several times, alternating between handsoap and lemon juice (to remove the smell), then put on gloves and took the egg outside for an eggtopsy. The chick was fully developed, the yolk sac was completely resorbed, and there were 2 malpositions. One was that the beak was over the right wing, which is the most common malposition. It may make it harder to hatch, but most still do hatch eventually. The second malposition, which is the second most common, was that one of the feet was extended up, trapped between the skull and the shell, instead of flexed down around the belly. That makes it difficult to pip because the chick doesn't have enough room for the back thrusts. If it is able to pip fully, which this chick did, its legs are not in the right position to rotate it around for the zip, or to push out of the shell. So this chick died because it couldn't escape the shell, and then started rotting. I was amazed that it had happened so quickly, as MoneyPenny's egg hadn't even pipped when I had last seen it less than 48 hours ago. Then I looked at the markings on the shell. It was Sweetie Pie's egg!!!

So the first chick I saw, when I was "monitoring" Sweetie's egg to be sure it hatched on time, was actually from either MoneyPenny's or Hettie's egg. I should have verified which egg hatched, but Sweetie's egg was the only one that had pipped 8 hours prior, so it seemed like a good assumption at the time. I didn't want to be too intrusive and keep feeling around until I found the hatched shell to verify identity. Maybe I wouldn't have saved the chick with an assisted hatch, but I could have tried. If it was vigorous enough to pip on day 18 it certainly had a good chance to survive, if I'd only known that it needed help. Maybe this was the first sign that its genetics weren't appropriate for a breeding program, and it's for the best. But maybe this happened because I didn't consider that naturally brooded chicks often hatch a few days early, and didn't start lockdown soon enough, so maybe it's my mistake for "over managing" the broody and leaving out an important detail. I feel awful about both mistakes -- I'm normally so meticulous, and neither of those little details are the types of things that I'd normally fail to verify, or fail to consider. (Of course, I'd feel even worse if I didn't get Hettie up every day to flap her wings and clear her lungs, and then she died of pneumonia, but that's a rare event.)

And now I don't know which chick came from MoneyPenny's egg and which one came from Hettie's egg. Hopefully it'll be obvious as they grow, as the two hens look a bit different from each other.

Anyway, that's the sad news. The good news is that Hettie is healthy, and a really good mom. Also, the chick that got out of the nestbox really was only chilled, was rescued in time, and is now doing very well. I've put up a barrier that Hettie can step over, but the chicks probably can't for a week or so. I'll take it down if it seems like Hettie wants to take them out. Hettie visibly and almost immediately switched from hatching mode to mommy mode when I removed the rotten egg out from under her, and started talking to and nuzzling the chicks. I was sitting with her last night and she was sitting on the nest with her head and neck upright, no longer in her trance, alert and happily interacting with me. The two chicks started cheeping as she shifted her weight, and she called them out from under her. She picked up a chick crumble in her mouth and set it down in front of one chick, talking to it until it picked up the crumble and ate it, then had a slightly higher pitched voice. Just like any mom, with one tone of voice telling the baby to eat the food, and a "good baby" voice praising it for eating. I'm so glad that she trusts me enough to let me share that with her.

Thank you to everyone for your knowledge and support. I've got another 25 eggs in the incubator, some of which will be put under a second broody in 1-2 days to finish incubating, and many (hopefully all if a third hen goes broody) of the hatched chicks will be grafted onto broody #2 (Jackie, who is sitting on ceramic eggs now) after they're identified as to which hen is their genetic mother (all are from the same rooster). I don't expect them all to hatch, as 5 are from the geriatric Langshans, but there should still be lots of chicks here soon.

Good story and learning experience! Don't beat yourself up to badly, more often than not, bothering the broody and her hatch too much in those finals days will cause more damage than do good. I think you did a marvelous job!

 

[Sydney Acres]

Result of my broody bantam's first hatch: sadly, nothing.

She is a year old and went broody around 3.5 weeks ago. I originally put 4 EE eggs for her mother to sit on in one of the nest boxes, but she adopted them instead. Occasionally other hens entered and sat.

On Day 13, another hen broke open an egg and created a mess (it was developing). Another egg got hairline cracks but I left it in (shouldn't have).

On Day 14, broody was moved to private quarters. She sat well on her 3 eggs.

Today, Day 21, the cracked egg was oozing stuff all over the nest/other eggs/hen. I removed the rotten egg, then did the float test, broke open the other 2 rotten eggs.

Not entirely sure what went wrong. I know the eggs were fertile; I hatched 2 of these eggs in the incubator in May.

I want to try again but I don't think my hen is in good enough condition. Plus the smell - mess- the experience has not been positive.

I'm so sorry that none of the chicks hatched. Things will probably go much better if you start with private broody quarters next time. Broodies may not have the same "predictability" or efficiency or potential volumes of chicks as an incubator, but there is something magical about watching a broody incubate and then mother the chicks she hatched.

 

[Wishapup]

I'm so sorry that none of the chicks hatched. Things will probably go much better if you start with private broody quarters next time. Broodies may not have the same "predictability" or efficiency or potential volumes of chicks as an incubator, but there is something magical about watching a broody incubate and then mother the chicks she hatched.

Thanks for the encouragement. I originally had 2 broodies (not this one) who I tried to start in private areas but refused to be moved despite my best efforts. When the 3rd went broody, I decided to start her in the nest box and see what happened.

I hope it will work out if I try it next year. I was really looking forward to seeing her raise them herself.

 

[GuineaFowling]

If her eggs don't hatch within a few days you can pull them to check for viability (candle them to see if they are sloshy or clear)

the hen won't care how big the eggs are that she is setting... broody hens aren't real fussy about things like that! We swap eggs in and out from under broody hens all the time. As long as you only give her what she can comfortably cover she will be fine.
If you think her body condition is good still and want her to hatch a few eggs then just set 3 or 4 of your Isa brown eggs into an egg carton with the pointy end down, tip the carton at an angle with a book or block of wood and change the direction of the tipping 2 or 3 times a day. You can have these eggs then on 'standby' and ready for the hen if you decide to swap out eggs in another day or two.

As far as the hatching... if you sit very quietly near the hen for a while you may hear her 'talking' to her eggs, and they may answer her back! My dog is always the first to know (except for the hen herself! LOL) when the eggs are pipping. If Mindy runs into the coop and parks herself in front of the broody then I know something is happening! Sometimes I can hear the chicks also, but only after Mindy alerts me to listen.
Mindy on peep alert mode...

A wider view to show what she is so intent on...

What a beautiful dog. She seems so gentle and patient. My dogs would probably jump up and don in excitement.

 

[fisherlady]

What a beautiful dog. She seems so gentle and patient. My dogs would probably jump up and don in excitement.

Thank you... she is very, very gentle and patient when it comes to the little ones! She seems to understand that it scares them when she moves quickly... so she will lay or sit super still when they are checking her out or moving around her. She is still very excited, she just seems to keep it reined in pretty well... but it is cute when she has been sitting super quiet and careful with her new chicks and then goes outside the coop into our yard and just jumps around all over like a puppy again.... she vents for a bit and then goes back into the coop in 'watch mode' again.
We are very, very blessed to have a dog which is so chick friendly!

...a couple of snapshots of Mindy's normal chick time at the coop....

 

[Sydney Acres]

Thats so cute he sits there with her!

I have seen her make little clucking sounds. I went out there right now to candle light them and i wasnt able to see through them. Im not sure if her shell is too thick? I couldnt see anything but they do feel heavier.

I took her out to feed her and check on her. She wasnt able to stand, she was extra grumpy and growly. She seems dehydrated so I gave her some feed, chicken treats for protein and gave her 10mls of water through a needle less syringe and surprisingly she let me give her water dispute her growling. Shes also shaking which could be do to the dehydration?

Is it a good idea to check on here every hour?

If you candle from the bottom or side, it's normal not to see anything at this stage of development -- the egg is almost entirely filled with the chick's body, so the light can't go through it. You need to move the light up to the top, then around the top half of the egg (hold the egg wide end up, pointy end down) until you can see the edge of the airsac. The only thing to see at this stage is if the beak has entered the airsac, which is an internal pip.

It's very possible (not certain, but possible) that the shaking and inability to stand aren't anything to worry about at this stage. If the eggs are viable, then she knows it and has gone into her version of lockdown, where she won't move much at all to avoid moving the eggs around too much. Their muscles become very stiff, they shake, and have trouble getting up. Plus, they're in lockdown, so they don't want to get up. I take my broodies off their nests every day, and the longer they brood the more they shake, and the more reluctant they are to rise. It's part of the normal process.

But they do tend to eat and drink less and less as the days go by, so it is a good idea to take favorite foods to her, and to patiently give her water with a syringe (no needle, very important). At first she'll be growling, but she'll probably stop long enough for you to get some water into her. I'd go with water instead of electrolyte solution, or at the most very dilute electrolyte solution, because she's not actively losing electrolytes unless she's having diarrhea. Electrolyte replacement is important when you're losing them quickly (vomiting, diarrhea, some forms of kidney failure, sweating excessively, etc). But it you're just dehydrated from lack of water consumption, then plain water is what is needed. I would give her as much water by syringe as she is willing to take -- she'll turn her head away or simply stop swallowing and let the water spill into the nest when she's done (I tend to put a folded paper towel under the drip zone, so the nest doesn't get too wet). She may not eat or drink in front of you, but leave a small amount of food and water within her reach, and she may eat and drink after you've left the area. Just be sure that the water is such that a chick can't drown in the bowl, and is unlikely to spill. You can use the chick waters, or a shallow dish with marbles up to the top of the water level, so the chicks can't fall in and drown. I recently bought a hamster waterer to try, as one of the contributors here said that her broodies have learned to drink out of one, much like a hanging waterer with a chicken nipple.

Good luck with her. I hope she's alright, and that the eggs hatch soon. How often you should check on her depends on her tolerance of you. You don't want to be a source of repetitive stress, but you also don't want to be neglectful. Sometimes it's hard to balance those two things, as it's different for each hen.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
I had difficulty moving a broody once, and posted the details here. People came up with some innovative ideas, and it worked great. Sometimes it takes more than one try, and some customization. Please let us know if we can help.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
She is just amazing!! It's hard to teach good judgment -- she must have been born with at least some of it. And the hens seem totally comfortable with her around, not "broody protective." Wish dogs were all like that.