Old Fashioned Broody Hen Hatch A Long and Informational Thread

[bumpercarr]

As someone who has used both economy models as well as top of the line incubators, no one seems to realize that when you shell out $1,500 or more for a mechanical setting hen, then you likely already have a good understanding of incubation basics. At the commercial level 100% efficacy is the goal, 95% is often the reality, and 90% is acceptable, but just barely. The reality is, no one reading these words would patronize a doctor if 20-30 present of his patients croaked during the first 21 days.

I am not surprised that in one study that the smaller hens were deemed the better mothers. I had an idea that could be the case because of previous experiences, but I didn't have enough experience with big hens to allow me to say anything.

The incubator rooms in large hatcheries are climate controlled so that the incubators are not constantly cycling on and off trying to maintain the Goldie Locks' zone of 99.5 degrees.

Thanks to both of you for your input on incubators. Unfortunately, I have to incubate quite a bit but really love having broodies just so that I don't have to raise the chicks. I've used the cheap Styrofoam incubators, and although they work just fine, they take a lot of effort on the part of the human. Constantly watching humidity (although I found a humidity kit at Incubator Warehouse which would probably work well) and constantly verifying the temperature. So, finally, this year I am getting a Sportsman 1502 from Santa. It is sitting under the tree now and you can't imagine how hard it is for me not to open it and start messing around with it.

Another consideration for hatching, particularly shipped eggs, is altitude. It isn't mentioned very much, but there are plenty of good studies on the viability of eggs from sea level that are taken up to altitude for hatching. Not very good results for the shipped eggs and my own experience bears that out. While I'll usually hatch 80% of the eggs that I set from my own hens, my hatch rate for shipped eggs is generally less than 10%. The only reason that it is close to 10% is because the broodies tend to hatch out a few more of the shipped eggs than the incubator does (about 6% for the incubator), but still the failure rate is astounding. Almost all are quitters around day 15, so it isn't a fertility problem or even a shipping problem. In all of the research that I've done about it, seems that there is less oxygen at altitude and the eggs from sea level are not "accustomed" to less oxygen. I've tried to wrap my head around that hypothesis, and although I can see how that might be the case I also wonder how the eggs that are laid at altitude don't have a low oxygen problem as well.

So, that is the reason for the Sportsman. Since the eggs are giving off CO2 as they mature, removing as much CO2 from the incubator as possible will increase oxygen levels. Because of the size of the Sportsman (244 chicken eggs) I can give the eggs lots of space, which should increase their oxygen levels. I also put soda lime in the incubator to absorb CO2, hopefully also increasing the oxygen levels. I had a chance to talk to a commercial scientist this fall, he consults with a hatchery in the Denver area and said that they pump oxygen into their incubators and have increased their hatch rate to 95% (they also get all of their eggs from altitude). Anyway, TMI, but I thought I'd share a little of my experience/knowledge as well, particularly about high altitude hatching.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Thanks to both of you for your input on incubators. Unfortunately, I have to incubate quite a bit but really love having broodies just so that I don't have to raise the chicks. ....In all of the research that I've done about it, seems that there is less oxygen at altitude and the eggs from sea level are not "accustomed" to less oxygen. I've tried to wrap my head around that hypothesis, and although I can see how that might be the case I also wonder how the eggs that are laid at altitude don't have a low oxygen problem as well....

I have alluded to high CO2 during early incubation having a positive effect on the piping and hatching process. One big problem that too many fail to recognize is chicks who have grown too big in the egg to be able to position itself for hatching. These "mushy" chicks can literally kill themselves from exhaustion while struggling to internally pip.

I have therefor posted this research from the NIH for your consideration.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16697137

There are many more links at this web sight that chicken keepers may find interesting. Look at the Right Hand margin after you log on.

 

[bumpercarr]

I have alluded to high CO2 during early incubation having a positive effect on the piping and hatching process. One big problem that too many fail to recognize is chicks who have grown too big in the egg to be able to position itself for hatching. These "mushy" chicks can literally kill themselves from exhaustion while struggling to internally pip.

I have therefor posted this research from the NIH for your consideration.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16697137

There are many more links at this web sight that chicken keepers may find interesting. Look at the Right Hand margin after you log on.

Good study. I don't have Ascites Syndrome, but I'm not raising broilers. But, absolutely agree that the CO2 is needed in the first 10 days of incubation and I don't lose very many starters during that period. Mostly, mine die at day 15-17. I found last year by removing CO2 after day 10 (and converting it to oxygen) that it was very helpful and increased my hatch rate but also increased the number of birds that needed assistance in hatching due to stuck shells. Mortality after hatch was minimal, same as I experienced before removing CO2. My thoughts are that by providing more space in the incubator (holds 244, I'll probably have no more than 50 in at one time), I will have to worry less about oxygen or CO2 removal. Another opinion is for high altitude hatching to increase humidity to 55%, 65% at lock down. I'm not sure whether I will try increasing humidity or not.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

... absolutely agree that the CO2 is needed in the first 10 days of incubation and I don't lose very many starters during that period. Mostly, mine die at day 15-17. .... Another opinion is for high altitude hatching to increase humidity to 55%, 65% at lock down. I'm not sure whether I will try increasing humidity or not.

The next 10 or 12 chicks that you lose inside the egg after say day 16 or 17, open up the egg carefully and note there the dead chicks head and beak is in relationship to the rest of its body. In preparation for hatching a piping chick's head should be tucked under its right wing. This is the proper position for the chick to bring its egg tooth to bare on the egg shell, air cell, and membrane. You may find that the chick's position in the egg is causing your high rate of assisted hatchings.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I still use an old fashioned Pyrometer to find the relative humidity. I like 75 - 89% humidity by the 21st day. At lock down keep your eggs bunched together. I believe that the peeping sound given off by piping chicks urge the other chicks to make a greater effort to hatch.

 

[AnneInTheBurbs]

I am attempting hatching under a broody for the first time! My hen is also a first timer, but she has done great so far, 5 days stuck to the "nest" like glue. The nest is actually my computer chair... she is an indoor chicken. I've had to surrender that to her. Her eggs are due to hatch after the new year. She is so sweet with all of them! The eggs I gave her are serama, and she's a LF cochin, seeing her be so gentle as she scoops an egg the size of her chest feathers under her is too funny. I hope she manages, I've seen the signs of this coming on for weeks and she always speeds through her jaunts off the nest like she's urgent to get back. If she quits the nest I'll be prepared for that.

When she hatches her chicks, I plan to take them from her once she seems ready to get off the nest with them and brood them with chicks I have incubating simultaneously in my incubator. Her babies will be small enough to fit under the doors and wander in to places where the cat roams. Will taking her babies cause complications with her broodiness? I want her to stop being broody rather than returning right to nest in strained condition, and want to be ready for what happens.

How is your girl doing? Still stuck on the nest?

Thanks to both of you for your input on incubators.  Unfortunately, I have to incubate quite a bit but really love having broodies just so that I don't have to raise the chicks.  I've used the cheap Styrofoam incubators, and although they work just fine, they take a lot of effort on the part of the human.  Constantly watching humidity (although I found a humidity kit at Incubator Warehouse which would probably work well) and constantly verifying the temperature.  So, finally, this year I am getting a Sportsman 1502 from Santa.  It is sitting under the tree now and you can't imagine how hard it is for me not to open it and start messing around with it.

Another consideration for hatching, particularly shipped eggs, is altitude.  It isn't mentioned very much, but there are plenty of good studies on the viability of eggs from sea level that are taken up to altitude for hatching.  Not very good results for the shipped eggs and my own experience bears that out.  While I'll usually hatch 80% of the eggs that I set from my own hens, my hatch rate for shipped eggs is generally less than 10%.  The only reason that it is close to 10% is because the broodies tend to hatch out a few more of the shipped eggs than the incubator does (about 6% for the incubator), but still the failure rate is astounding.  Almost all are quitters around day 15, so it isn't a fertility problem or even a shipping problem.  In all of the research that I've done about it, seems that there is less oxygen at altitude and the eggs from sea level are not "accustomed" to less oxygen.  I've tried to wrap my head around that hypothesis, and although I can see how that might be the case I also wonder how the eggs that are laid at altitude don't have a low oxygen problem as well. 

So, that is the reason for the Sportsman.  Since the eggs are giving off CO2 as they mature, removing as much CO2 from the incubator as possible will increase oxygen levels.  Because of the size of the Sportsman (244 chicken eggs) I can give the eggs lots of space, which should increase their oxygen levels.  I also put soda lime in the incubator to absorb CO2, hopefully also increasing the oxygen levels.  I had a chance to talk to a commercial scientist this fall, he consults with a hatchery in the Denver area and said that they pump oxygen into their incubators and have increased their hatch rate to 95% (they also get all of their eggs from altitude).  Anyway, TMI, but I thought I'd share a little of my experience/knowledge as well, particularly about high altitude hatching.

This may be a long shot, but would it be possible to put a plant in the incubator? Something tropical? Since plants breath CO2 and release oxygen. Just a thought, never worked with an incubator before.

My broody is on day 15, and yesterday she was out of the nest box, sitting in front of it. She had all her eggs under her, plus three others from the other girls (probably her sister) who laid them in the same box.

She is an excellent broody, but it is truly a miracle if any eggs hatch, given that it is below freezing every night.

 

[fisherlady]

How is your girl doing? Still stuck on the nest?
This may be a long shot, but would it be possible to put a plant in the incubator? Something tropical? Since plants breath CO2 and release oxygen. Just a thought, never worked with an incubator before.

My broody is on day 15, and yesterday she was out of the nest box, sitting in front of it. She had all her eggs under her, plus three others from the other girls (probably her sister) who laid them in the same box.

She is an excellent broody, but it is truly a miracle if any eggs hatch, given that it is below freezing every night.

Don't give up on the hatch... if she was still covering them then there should be little effect. My smallest broody (Gracie) was pushed out of her nest 3 or 4 times by larger birds on her last brood, and I would find her covering her eggs in a corner near her preferred spot. I wish I'd had a camera on her in the coop to see how she managed to steal the eggs out from under the other hen so she could continue her sitting, because the probably was a good show... but anyway, she hatched 6/6 and they were on time. The hatch was in late October or early November (don't have my list of hatches with me to get exact date)

 

[AnneInTheBurbs]

Don't give up on the hatch... if she was still covering them then there should be little effect.  My smallest broody (Gracie) was pushed out of her nest 3 or 4 times by larger birds on her last brood, and I would find her covering her eggs in a corner near her preferred spot. I wish I'd had a camera on her in the coop to see how she managed to steal the eggs out from under the other hen so she could continue her sitting, because the probably was a good show... but anyway, she hatched 6/6 and they were on time. The hatch was in late October or early November (don't have my list of hatches with me to get exact date)

I'm not giving up, don't worry about that. It's just amazing to learn about this whole process. I am constantly in awe of Gods creation. It's so wonderful to have this opportunity, so many don't know anything about their food except that it shows up on their plate.

 

[kristin07035]

Only 5 more days! Due on Christmas day can't wait.
She's sitting on 3 silkie eggs (1-buff, 1-splash & 1- paint) & one splash marans

 

[vpatt]

I am excited for everyone waiting on chicks....they are so great!

 

[winteree]

god I am so excited!! My two bantams should be hatching out a lone baby chick hopefully this weekend then its off to the feed store to get her some more chicks

but I had a question my grams only ever fed her chickens scratch but I wanted to feed the new chicks medicated chick feed....how do I do that without the chicks getting into the layers feed and the layers getting into the chick feed without locking up the hen(s) and the chicks. I still have my old brooder that I set up when I raised the birds I have now but both mama hens are use to free ranging if I locked them up in the brooder with the chicks until they where feathered do you think they would freak out?



old brooder