Older hen not well this morning - UPDATE WEEKS LATER! (Good outcome)

[verlaj]

One of my older hens, a GLW age 4-5 years, seems to feel bad this morning. She didn’t scamper out with the others when I opened the coop door this morning, and hung out by the waterer. I noticed a little “plop” of yellow with mucus nearby, and she has some yellow residue on the feathers under her vent. She is in good weight – not fat – and her feathers are sleek and shiny. She was feeling well last night – out foraging and ate layer crumbles. I don’t see anything wrong with her vent, felt her abdomen and it does not feel abnormal but she grunted and there was a little rumbling, like gas moving inside, when I did that. I brought out some hard-boiled egg to offer her and she had left the coop but was quietly off by herself. She ate HB egg readily. I don’t know if she is laying – don’t monitor the individual hens for that.

Here’s the environment:
9 older hens (1 age 7, 8 ages 4-5).
38 young chickens, 9 hatched here and 29 from Ideal, all hatched in May this year. None are laying yet – too young.

All housed together in an open air coop with sand floor at night, loose in a fenced yard during the day, and the GLWs, including the pokey one when she feels good, hop the fence and free range at will. All get to free range the last couple of hours before dusk.

Food: Everyone gets starter/grower with amprolium. Gradually have been switching over to Blue Seal (20% protein) from Purina (18% protein). Older hens get offered Blue Seal layer crumbles when they hang out at the barn, where the young birds don’t go. Have been giving scratch in the evening – about a 16 oz cup full for all 47 chickens, to get the young ones friendly and to enjoy their company in the evening. The hens do get a bigger share than the young ones. Have been putting crushed egg shell where the hens tend to hang out without the “kids” to give them extra calcium since they are not getting much layer feed right now. (I saw on another post this morning that you should give oyster shell, not egg shell, for calcium. This was new information for me – if anyone knows why, please explain.)

Occasionally see a “leathery” shelled egg. I do not know who is producing these.

Everyone else is well.

Any thoughts on what it might be and what I should do? Thanks for your help!

 

[speckledhen]

Sounds like that was egg yolk. She could have developed egg yolk peritonitis or be laying internally, especially at that age. What you could try is to separate her from the others and give her a 3-4 day round of penicillin injections and see if you can head off an ovarian infection, if that's really the problem. It's hard to know exactly what is wrong, but I've lost several to this ailment and it could be that, especially if you see that her weight is going down, too. They act fine and look fine, but at a certain point, they begin to lose weight and become weak. There is no real cure for it, but I have saved one hen with the antibiotic injections (though she may have a recurrence later on).

 

[verlaj]

Thanks for the suggestion. I hope she will be okay. What kind of penicillin and dose do you recommend?

 

[threehorses]

For sure, verjal, I can see that if you see leathery eggs, then I'd definiltely move everyone who lays up to laying feed, give oyster shell, and try making a quickly eaten wet mash for just the laying girls with a couple of tums tablets crushed into it. I don't recommend this often as too much calcium is as bad as too little. But it sounds like the GLW really needs the calcium. With her, because you see the yolk on the feathers, I'd consider giving her a gentle flush with cool clean water to try to make sure that all the yolk is out. I would keep her up and separate so that she gets food and mostly so you can monitor her droppings.

On the oyster shell, it's very bioavailable and absorbable. Egg shells have never been recommended by things like poultry texts for calcium, and I feel it's because the calcium isn't as bioavailable as the oyster shell which so readily dissolves within the bird. So personally I'd offer them all the oyster shell, which you can serve with the grit that all free range birds should get (no matter the environment). The girls can and will figure out which to pick from the grit/oyster shell. I just pour one on one side, the other on the other side of the same container.

As for the ill hen... I'd give her 1/2 a tums crushed in the feed, and then offer her and the others the oyster shell as soon as you can get it. You might want to offer just a bit the first day to keep the girls from really hogging down a good amount as they sometimes tend to do. But do get their attention there - perhaps throw a few bits of scratch into the container (literally a very few) so that they investigate.

In the mean time, on the ill hen, after doing a gentle flush with the cool water to wash out any remaining yolk, watch her. Retained egg or shells can cause peritonitis so you will want to keep and eye on her. Penicillin can be helpful for that - injectable or oral (I prefer injectable because it's less hard on their digestive tract bacteria). So you might want to have some on hand just in case. Feed stores sell it from their refrigerators. It requires a larger gauge needle because of the thickness of the penicillin solution. A needle that is 18 gauge is thicker and better for pen than 25 gauge. 3 cc syringes are fine.

 

[verlaj]

Thanks, threehorses. I have already given the oyster shell and layer crumbles to the hens, separately from the juveniles. I offered laying crumbles mixed with yogurt to the ill hen - she was not interested in eating that. She did take scrambled egg and some watermelon. The other hens are cleaning up the yogurt mash. I will try the tums tab maybe mixed with egg, which she seems to like.

I can look this up, but I know the feed stores sell procaine penicillin and regular penicillin. I'm assuming that chickens do not get procaine pen.

Will do the gentle flush as suggested and try to get some calcium in her.

Thanks again for post!

 

[threehorses]

If you can get regular, it's better apparently. You'd do it daily of course for at least four treatments (seven is better). Please do let us know how she goes!

 

[verlaj]

I will get penicillin tomorrow..

She refused Tums mixed with egg. I will try again in the a.m. - maybe she will be hungrier then, because I had already given her plain egg and watermelon after she refused the yogurt mash.

Bad news, I think, though. I got a better feel of her belly this evening and compared it to one of her sisters. She definitely has a few firm, ropy feeling things in her belly, and discomfort when I feel it. Does not bode well, I think - but I will try the penicillin etc. Seems I owe her that after years of her faithful egg-laying.

By the way, the hens have only been getting starter/grower for about 5 weeks - when I blended the new chicks with the hens.

 

[threehorses]

Aww bless her heart. I hope it's not internal laying. Can you possibly take her to a vet?

Yeah try the tums tomorrow. /hugs

 

[verlaj]

I don't think that it is internal laying, because the ropy things I'm feeling are just that - not a large diameter - more like thickened tubular organs. I felt 2 in the lower abdomen, and another that was higher up - near the back - that was shorter in length but bigger in diameter - maybe an ovary. There isn't any noticeable fluid accumulation in the abdomen.

I have been reading extensively - thinking about contacting a poultry vet at the University to see if I can get a site visit. I don't know if they are tuned into individual birds, but I am a little worried about the possibility of an infectious agent that might be transmitted to the young birds.

Of course, I would like to save this bird. She really seemed fine until this morning - and she's the friendliest of the hens - jumps up on my chair to get treats and lets me pet her. I'll feel pretty bad if it is my management that brought this on.

I can't find a dose for injectable penicillin for chickens. I read on another thread "1/4 to 3/4 cc daily alternating breast muscle." Do you know the dose?

 

[threehorses]

The pen dosage depends on the individual medicine. What does your label say about the actual med and strength, and we'll go from there.

When you said the ropy things, I'm thinking intestines. I wonder if that means that they're inflammed?

Were you able to start the calcium? Is she eating or anything today?