One Large vs Three Small / Feedback Appreciated

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:
Lynne,

My question was about how to make the larger flock work, not whether or not to have one. But I do appreciate your input.

Cheers,



John

 

[patandchickens]

If they will all be run together, there is not much point in the extra expense/work of constructing three separate coops IMHO. One bigger building is more economical and more useful in almost all cases (more flexibility in using the interior area). If you do decide to separate the flocks into different runs at some point int he future it would be easy enough to do that from a single building, just fence off *several* runs from it, so that's not really a consideration.

Remember that you will need separate quarters for raising up young chickens (you say you want to breed), and unless you get a giant-sized incubator and do a single setting of all breeds at once, you will need *several* sets of quarters for growing youngsters up, as you will have different age broods that can't safely be mixed together. Even if you just did one setting of each breed per year, unless you can do more than one at a time (big incubator!) then you will need at least 3 grow-out pens. They need to be big enough, indoor and run both, not just for brooding wee fluffy lil' chicks but for housing nearly full-sized chickens as they grow out close enough to maturity to enable you to cull down to the ones you want to keep. This is a SIGNIFICANT space demand, over and above what 105 chickens would require. I wouldn't want to hatch fewer than 2 dozen per breed myself, ideally a good deal more per year, and even 2 dozen x 3 breeds is an extra 75 nearly-full-size chickens you need to have housing for.

Just sayin

Anyhow, all things being equal, I certainly think one big building is the way to go (or in your case, perhaps two big buildings <g>)

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:
They wouldn't be run together; they'd be run one coop at a time.

Quote:
As I mentioned in my initial post, I don't want the decision to be influenced by cost, so I wanted people to ignore that factor.

Quote:
All the more reason to go with a number of smaller coops with smaller individual groups in the run at a time, no?

Quote:
Good food for thought. Breeding would be down the line, but I want the initial design of things to take into account my needs in the future. I appreciate the input. It's helpful.

Quote:
Actually, I'm now leaning toward having the separate smaller coops, based on a couple of the other posts and concerns about biosecurity, the overall manageability of things, and the quality of life for the chickens themselves.



John

 

[Diavolicchio]

There are probably many other coop configurations that would work beyond the couple that have been proposed here. I'm open to any of them, as long as they're in the best interests of the chickens as well as the sanity of the guy raising them.


John

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
They wouldn't be run together; they'd be run one coop at a time.

Oh, ok, I was confused by "going to let all the chickens to all coexist, rather than separating them". You mean you are going to separate breeds, just not *within* breeds? So, you will have 3 separate runs, one for each breed? (you don't mean you will only let each pen out 1/3 of the time, do you?)

Quote:
All the more reason to go with a number of smaller coops with smaller individual groups in the run at a time, no?

Actually I'd say it's more reason to go with one big building. It gives you a lot more flexibility to alter how it's partitioned, to change the size of the groups you are accommodating. A (say) 12x36' building can be whacked up any number of ways, whereas a 12x12 building is pretty limiting and among other things will never give you an area *more* than 12x12.

Also, a single building is less labor-intensive to work with. You don't have to carry feed and water from building to building, you don't have to worry about running utilities to multiple places and keeping them *all* safe, you don't have to keep walking all around the place all the time. It might not seem like a big deal but those of use who've taken care of livestock in "distributed" vs "centralized" housing know that it can rapidly become a pretty significant time sink and aggravation.

Separate coops don't really give you any better biosecurity in most real-world backyard-type situations, btw. Anything they get in one, they're likely to get in the others too.

Just food for thought, good luck, have fun,

Pat​

 

[Intheswamp]

Ok, my two-cents...even though the only chicken on my place is in the refrigerator.

Biosecurity... No need to shoot for "on property" biosecurity if you're going to let the birds share the same run but at different times...they'll just simply leave germs or viri in the run for another group to pick up.

A book that I think is wonderful is the reprinted "Fresh-Air Poultry Houses" by Prince T. Woods. Three of his 10x16 colony houses built adjoining each other would give you 480 sqft. His suggested houses are half-monitor, but a straight shed-roof with the deep coop I think will do well. The half-monitor allows more light towards the back of the coop and also enhances summertime ventilation. Woods goes into a lot of detail about the reasoning behind open-air houses and, for early 1900 poultry science, he's got some good arguments for these types of houses. If you were to build three of the 10x16 houses you could build a run coming off of each one that would be 10' wide and as long as you wanted it and each group of chickens could be out at the same time but physically separated. Needless to say there would be no biosecurity between groups. Here's a scan of a plan from Woods book to give you an idea of what I'm talking about....

You could simply build a run 30' wide and ever how long and run two stretches of fence down the length of it to give each coop it's own run.

If you're interested,...the reprint is from Woods' original "Modern Fresh Air Poultry Houses" printed in 1924. You can read more about it and it's printer, Norton Creek Press at http://www.nortoncreekpress.com/poultry.html . (I have no connection with them other than an appreciative reader of a few of the reprints.) It can be purchased there or elsewhere....

Best wishes with your project.....go slow and build your own quality flock.

Ed

 

[Tala]

I'd go with one big building that can be partitioned off in several configurations.

My aunt/uncle had cattle/horses and one big barn. There were 2 large gates on all-direction hinges, plus smaller stalls along the walls for feeding each horse separately. By using the two gates you could configure the inside of the barn in SEVERAL different stall sizes, one big one or 3 smaller ones, great for separating animals for any such reason. Also you could herd them in and shut the gate as the certain cow got to the right end of the barn. I thought it was really nifty!!

My own coop is small compared to what you are talking about, but I have room to make separate partitions inside it if I want/need. I think it's easiest that way.

 

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:
Ed:

I love this idea. I just needed to see a drawing of how it would all fit together to make sense. I just ordered a copy of the book from Amazon for about $15 and a looking forward to the read.

My primary concern with these fresh-air poultry houses is how well they'd fare on the Coast of Maine. If it drops to -20F (which it can do on a rare occasion in my town), I just can't see how a structure that has one wall of year-round open screening would be sufficient to keep the chickens from freezing to death, not to mention their water, eggs, etc. I'm keeping an open mind though. The other concern I have is noise. Having 105 chickens are clucking and squawking and cock-a-doodle-doing in a structure with one completely open wall (just screenning) would make me real popular with my neighbors --->

I think this particular design could very well be the basis for what I end up doing. I really appreciate you sharing it and taking the time to scan that image.

Cheers,


John

 

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:
If I were to go with three separate structures, I'd have specific breeds (or pairs of breeds) assigned to each of them. My plans for runs would be separate runs, one for each of the three coops, if I were to go with separate coops. I really like the design of the structure that Ed (Intheswamp) proposed however, and I think it makes even more sense, especially in having individual runs for each of the three sections within the coop. I want to make sure that if I've got groups of chickens of different ages (and I will) that I'm able to allow the youngest and smallest to hang out together, rather than getting thrown into a huge communal run with absolutely every other chicken.

By the way, regarding co-existing. . . I meant to say that I'm not going to keep each single breed completely segregated (as I originally considered) from every other breed for the duration of its life. I'd at least pair them up with one (or possibly two) other breeds. In the case of the design that Ed posted, I'd have 30 co-existing in one partition; 45 in another slightly larger one; and 30 in the last. I'd keep the original footprint of that design (30' x 16'), but modify the partitions to measure 8' x 16', 12' x 16' and 8' x 16', with the 1st and 3rd holding two breeds and the 2nd holding three.

Quote:
Again, I'm now leaning in the same direction, having seen the basic plans for the partitioned, Open-Front chicken coop that Ed posted. If I'd eventually need to put breeding cages in each of the three partitioned areas, so be it.

The one thing that I wonder about in that design though are the swinging doors that appear to exist between each partitioned area. That almost seems to defeat the purpose of having separate partitions. Further, I can't help but think the number of chickens who'd end up decapitated trying to run through a swinging door at just the wrong time. . . . granted, it WOULD make culling easier

Thanks for your input, Pat.


John

 

[Intheswamp]

John, I think you're *really* going to appreciate the book. Woods does most of his research and experimenting in Massachusetts...you will appreciate the pictures of the coops after some big blizzards...and the chickens posing.

There are several more coop designs in the book, too. Very good reading. I'm really wanting to go with the 10x16 footprint but this economy ain't helping me out on this. I may trim back down to 8x12. I'm looking at only having a couple of dozen large fowl, but I'd either like to give them extra room or maybe have room for "extra".

I'm thinking that the partitions do need to be solid partitions. The idea of the open front houses is to create an "air cushion" towards the back of the coop that "repells" the intrusion of snow, cold-air, etc.,. Being deeper than they are wide helps create the "cushion" but yet there is still a good fresh-air exchange.

Ok, I'm going to give you a little bit of a spoiler here.

Here's a link to a copy of Woods early 1912 version of "Open Air Poultry Houses For All Climates". It will give you some good food for thought while you're waiting on the 1924 version.

Open Air Poultry Houses For All Climates

Enjoy!!!
Ed