Organic vs. regular layer feed

[PAChickenChick]

Organic is NOT a sales ploy. They are highly regulated in order to be sold under the title of organic.

Yes...Local is important...and sometimes when you buy local you're getting organic as well...smaller farms sometimes use organic methods. And if you have local farmers I urge you to support them by buying from them...and if they are organic that is even better...and if they aren't and you want them to be...mention it to them.

As for what makes things organic vs. standard...lets take a soda pop for example.... if it has high fructose corn syrup in its ingreds. then it is not organic no matter how it was produced. If it is using regular sugar it's not organic, and if it's organic cane sugar and all it's other ingreds. are organic, then it def. is organic. But the point being is whether the sweetener had to be "refined" to get it, how it was grown, and the methods used to grow the "base" sweetening agent.

In the case of chicken feed....it would be the same. Are the proteins synthetic or naturally raised? Did they get growth hormones before they became the "protein source"? Are they putting fillers in the feed? Was any of it sprayed with a pesticide that wasn't from natural/organic substances? Were any of the grains from plants that were genetically modified to resist disease?

These are the things that make the difference in the terms "organic" "all-natural" "standard".

I personally have a preference...but mine may not be yours..and that's cool. Just know that if you are "selling" your eggs as "organic" but not using organic feed...then you are committing fraud.

"Cage Free" "Free Range" "Farm Fresh" sure...but "organic" NO...

I don't have a problem with anyone's choice of feed...your situation is uniquely yours... Just keep in mind that what you put in your chickens you get right back...in them and their eggs...so if you're not using organic feed you do not have organic chickens or eggs.

 

[silkiechicken]

Another reason I don't bother feeding organic, is because my land is not certified organic, which would make the stuff they eat while free ranging not organic. Lots of people think that a non factory egg is organic oddly enough, but I tell the people I sell to that I free range and I don't feed organic feeds.

One thing that really gets me on some labeling of a "organic" breakfast bar I had once, was that when I turned it over, the label read "30% organic grains"! WHAT!

Organic does exist, but I think in some respects it is a ploy, especially when the term is used by people in such different ways despite the rules that do exist.

 

[PAChickenChick]

Quote:
Yes Silkie...I hate that too....I either want it to be 100% organic or 0%....I hate the folks who try to have it both ways.

And again....you are 100% correct in supporting local farmers...organic or not...not only does it have so many things to do with our health and use of resources....but let's not forget that if the big corporations get control of all farms it won't be long before they will take control of the BYC flocks too....

We all have to remember that just because they aren't coming after us yet....that doesn't mean we can't care about who they ARE going after....
If the small farmer gets wiped out who will be next...

 

[pkeeler]

I know I could buy organic feed, but I do agree it is just a marketing thing and that it's healthier for the planet IF it is not trucked in from thousands of miles away.

While this sounds reasonable, I don't think it is a linear relationship. It might take less energy to ship the organic stuff than to manufacture the petroleum based fertilizer, ship the fertilizer, and double that for the pesticides and herbicides. It is really impossible to calculate the carbon footprint of things just based on travel distance.

The best reason to buy local is that, usually, things are left to ripen longer in the fields (e.g. tomatoes are picked when red not green), which increases vitamin content. Further, you can grow varieties of vegetables that are bred for taste and not durability.

Organic is not a marketing ploy, it is a marketing strategy. It is a completely different way to grow food and it is marketed at people who would pay more for it.​

 

[SeaChick]

WE feed organic grains for many reasons. The primary one is health (I am a cancer survivor and my daughter is at risk for it... so this is very important to me!!). Things like growth hormones and persticides and herbicides have been implicated in the rise of breast cancer. We avoid anything with those substances. Organic is the best way for us to do that. Non-organic feed is extremely likely to contain GMO "round-up ready" type corn which cannot be grown without loads of herbicides, as well as pesticides and chemical fertilizers.

Secondarily, petro-chemical fertilizers are on our "no" list for environmental reasons. I won't get into a huge debate about it, I know some of you think that using chemicals and technology to produce food is the only way for the future, but we disagree. We see lots of local farmers making it work on small, diversified family famrs that are either certified organic or at least practice organic methods or crop/livestock rotation, no chemicals, etc. That's what we choose to believe is the way for the future of farming, and what we want to support.

It is worth the extra $7/bag for us to buy organic feed.

Stacey

 

[sugarbush]

From a chemistry standpoint there is no such thing as an artificial chemical fertilizer, pesticide etc. Those things can pe produced in a lab/factory environment, but they are still 100% natural from the stand point that the lab is just replicating what happens naturally.

That aside I will say that we where certified organic dairy farmers for a number of years and the regulation standards where strong. From a legal standpoint you have to be certified by the USDA to claim your product is organic even if you are feeding organic feeds.

I don't feed organic for two reasons.
1st. The organic feed companies are all too often small couple man operations who don't have the nutritionists and labs on staff to do research on the product they are producing. They have a mix book that they bought from a large company and then the tweek the formula to produce a desired effect. So they want their feed to apear to make the birds look healthier so they throw in a little extra Lysine than the mix calls for. Now you birds will eat until they get what they need from the feed, but now the balance is off and you birds are consuming too much lysine or whatever other vitamin or mineral that extra was put in and that is actaully worse than not getting enough and your flock develops a toxicity.

2nd. When we where organic certified people bought our milk because they wanted to protect the environment. There was a bumper sticker for a number of years that I wish would come back... It read "organics....It's about the environment stupid". Corporate America latched onto the term and twisted it's meaning so now most people think that eating organic food is healthier..... They saw the oppertunity to sink their hands into the pockets of the health aware crowd and capitalized on it.... I have absolutely nothing to do with organics.... I do support local though..... But when it comes to feed I buy from the big companies who actaully know what they are doing.

And beware of feeds that only have protein from plant material.....most plant protein are incomplete and completely useless if they did not balance them in order to complete them.

 

[pkeeler]

And beware of feeds that only have protein from plant material.....most plant protein are incomplete and completely useless if they did not balance them in order to complete them.

This is an incredibly persistent myth. Hard to blame people, since the book that started it all, "Diet for a Small Planet", really ran with it (the author admitted the error in 1982 and the myth still persists). All plant sources have all the amino acids. Even corn, which is always quoted as having no lysine. Yes, not as much as beef or soybeans, but enough. Enough in the sense that if all you ate was corn, and consumed enough calories to survive, you would get all the lysine you needed.

Now, if you want to get a certain amount of protein per pound at the cheapest price, then more concentrated sources are useful. But if an organic feed bag says it has 18% protein, it will be just as useful as a non-organic bag that says 18% protein. There is no difference between the two except how the ingredients were grown.​

 

[sugarbush]

Quote:
This is an incredibly persistent myth. Hard to blame people, since the book that started it all, "Diet for a Small Planet", really ran with it (the author admitted the error in 1982 and the myth still persists). All plant sources have all the amino acids. Even corn, which is always quoted as having no lysine. Yes, not as much as beef or soybeans, but enough. Enough in the sense that if all you ate was corn, and consumed enough calories to survive, you would get all the lysine you needed.

I disagree and I believe that any nutritionalist or chemist would as well.... All college level nutrition textbooks as well as agriculture text books say otherwise.... Soy is one of the few complete proteins in the plant world.

I am not trying to change anybodies mind on any of this. I am merely stating what I know about organics from being certified as well as spending a few years as a batch mixer for a very large feed company... I am not telling anybody to not buy organic feed, just be aware of what you are buying and who you are buying it from. As far as I know the USDA does not certify livestock feed organic.....and they are the governing power over organics in this country. There are alot of small organizations that have popped up as certifying bodies, but being certified by Joe blow and company means absolutely nothing if the USDA does not have their stamp on it.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
This is absolutely, unequiocally, without question FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Corn is a source of energy via carbohydates, it is a HORRIBLE source of protein.

Here is an example of why this theory is incorrect:

4 week old broiler consumes about consumes about 100 g feed/day. This feed contains 1.0% lysine, which equals a daily lysine intake of 7 grams. To consume that amount of lysine from corn that broiler would have to consume 385 grams of feed. This is not possible as the GI tract of that chicken can not contain that much feed.

Without question poultry feeds can be made with only vegetable protein sources. Soybean meal is a very good source of protein, however it is short of methionine compared to what poultry require. The NOP eliminates the use of DL-Methionine in October of this year. So the organic producers are forced to either over formulate their rations, use exotic "organic" protein sources, or underformulate for methionine.

Jim

 

[HeadHen]

I want to go organic because you are what you eat and you are what your animals eat. Obesity rates, cancer rates, autism, ADD, all these scary things on the rise and no one knows why. The more we evaluate the more we find the stuff we used to make our crops produce better or make things easier to do was creating horrific problems in the enviroment and ourselves. If I have the ability to provide something for my children that might be healthier then I am going to do that.
Growth hormones in the animals and then people are getting obese. Antibiotics in the animals and antibiotic resistance is on the rise. Pesticides from the crops we eat washing into the ocean and killing whole reef systems.
Organic might not be the answer, but I'm going to give it a chance. I'd rather be wrong then sorry. However I will be very careful that the place making the feed shares my feelings and isn't just trying to make more money.
I'm going to buy from Coyote Creek. They are the first certified organic commercial mill in texas and the owner did so after beating cancer and educating himself. He is very proud of and dedicated to his chickens and eggs. He has the largest organic flock and grows his own feed and is committed to assisting and educating the farmers in his area.
My feeling is: If it is to be, it begins with me.