Overwhelmed with worry and the "advice" of a poultry-raising friend, need HELP !

[Phoenixwmn]

Hi there Peeps.

So my American Bresse chicks will arrive in a few weeks,I bought my coop, am gathering all the supplies I need, have a Chick Starter Kit with warming lamp & thermometer and all the trimmings and so on. I have a couple questions I'm having difficulty finding specific answers to, as well as the "advice" of a friend in another state who has a couple hens who is giving me a nervous breakdown with her dire warnings about my having a rooster. I'll get back to that in a minute….

I got a couple books on raising chickens, have read so many Chicken Care articles that my eyes are swimming. I've read that you should handle them, but not "too much", that "too much handling" can kill them. I have ZERO idea what those parameters may be !
I don't plan to "waller" them 24/7 or keep them in my lap while I watch TV or anything goofy like that, but I do want to socialize them to me, and have them recognize me as Alpha Hen or Mama Hen or however that concept is best expressed. I want to be able to handle them, examine their bodies for issues, treat them to prevent mites etc without my getting pecked etc. I'd like to be able to give them mealworm & sunflower seed treats etc from my hands and have them be open to that without fear or aggression. So, how much handling is TOO much ???

I'm not running a commercial operation here and not trying to make a living from them; I may sell a few eggs now and then and maybe down the road sell some chicks, but I'm not looking to make a profit; by and large I guess you could say they'll be producing pets. It's important to me to have a relationship with them. (If you laugh at me for saying that, I'll cry, so forewarned is forearmed. LOL

The other thing…..my friend keeps telling me all these dark Rooster horror stories, how he'll attack me and won't let me in the coop, and how he'll tear up my hen & injure her every time they mate and how sorry I'm going to be because I got a rooster. I'm fed up with it, she doesn't even HAVE a rooster herself, but I am worried there may be some truth in her doom and gloom predictions. I spoke with the breeder and he said he's never had any issues like that with his roo's, that he's never even known exactly when they mated, much less had a hen who suffered wounds from it.

Should I be worried and is there anything I can do to prevent these issues if they ARE true, God forbid ???

As always, I am humbly grateful for any education I can get, thank you in advance for your answers.
Best Regards, Susi

 

[Odelia]

First of all there is no need to stress about problems that don't yet exist. If you need to get rid of a badly behaved rooster in the future you will know it. The worry seems to be that all roosters are badly behaved and that is not the case. I have a friend that has a VERY large buff orpington rooster that my daughter at age five could walk up to and pick him up with out any cause for worry. It has a lot to do with the breed of chicken. Buff orpingtons are not used in cock fighting for a reason. They are not an aggressive breed. If the person you are getting your chicks from does not have any problems with his roosters then you should not expect problems with yours.

 

[Themehmeh]

There is no magic number for how much handling will kill them unless you're either tossing them around and mishandling them, terrifying them for sustained periods of time on a regular basis, or holding them so much they lose access to food and water when they need it.

Chickens are stupid and they're not mammals so cuddling doesn't always make them love you. the only thing that will ensure a better relationship is special treats. they get chicken feed all the time, you come in and try to hand them chicken feed and they won't care. Give them a special treat and only give it to them by hand. You can use a verbal command or unique sound to indicate they're about to get a treat. I would shake the mealworm jar and they would all come running. This is great for getting them all back into their coop or run before sunset or for getting them out of trees and hiding places when they can't exactly see you. I use mealworms and I start at about 2 weeks old. Again, Only feed them the special treat by hand (although I also sprinkle mealworms on the coop floor to get them all inside)

When they're little, and once theyre used to the special hand treats, you can also incorporate holding them while they eat their treat. You want significantly more positive handling experiences than negative ones (wing clipping, nail trimming, pooper scrubbing)

I can't answer much about roosters but from what I understand the younger roosters are worse than the older roosters in terms of violence while mating and I hear about quite a few roosters that are docile and friendly toward humans. My park had a few roosters in it for a while and my local feed store has roosters that wander around. No problems.

 

[Odelia]

As for how much handling is to much. Chicks that are killed are usually done so by small children who are not as gentle as adults. It isn't that they mean to hurt the chicks they just don't have the necessary motor skills. The other main issue is heat. They need to be kept warm. So that first week they need to be 95 degrees. I don't know about you but my house isn't that warm. So try to keep it to about 5 minutes per chick before giving them a break repeat 2-3 times per day. You can hold them longer as they get older. It is really just the first 1-2 weeks you need to be so careful as they are newborns. I don't know about you but I didn't have enough time to hold my chicks to much. If you have 6 chicks held 5 minutes each there went a half hour. As for as having to be a nut to watch tv while holding a baby chick then I guess I am a nut because it has happened. They will sometimes fall asleep on you and you don't want to disturb them by putting them back. Hope you enjoy your new pets.

 

[Phoenixwmn]

THANK YOU so much for your reassurance & info, I genuinely appreciate it~!

 

[Phoenixwmn]

Thank you and I definitely will ! There are no small children living here, my grand-babies come for visits but they won't be handling the chicks anyway, it's not wise for small children health-wise as a rule ( said as a retired RN), plus I'd be concerned about inadvertent chick-squishing. I have a Chick Starter Kit with heat lamp & thermometer, so I'll be keeping a very close eye on that, monitoring it closely.

I didn't mean to imply someone who holds their chickens is a wacko, I'm sorry…I didn't want to be perceived as someone who has an unrealistic idea of how they should be cared for and handled.
Your advice is sound and logical and I appreciate that~ Thank you !

 

[Spangled]

I agree with Odelia and Themehmeh.

I have had many roosters and if you are growing yours up from chicks, then you will know which ones to keep, at least one as a back up or two. I keep three over winter, but I would not ever just keep one if I were planning to breed a specific breed for a while, which it sounds like you are. So you'll keep the middle of the road roosters ... not the one friendliest to you because he may end up thinking you're a hen that needs to be bred ... those are the ones that seem aggressive. You won't keep the scaredy cat rooster. You won't keep the one that follows you around thumping on the ground. I definitely do not make pets out of my roosters; it confuses them. They end up thinking I'm a hen or that I'm a rooster to dominate. You will have time to read up on all the theories about roosters later. I have great roosters right now that I walk past every single last day numerous times and they never so much as peck at me. I let them do their job ... protect their hens and find their hens feed. If your breeder says his roosters are fine, then they likely are because disposition is an inherited trait in my experience ... year after year. I love having roosters with my layers. If children were running around here day in and day out, I would train the children on how to stay out of a rooster's space and not get between him and his hens. If the rooster seemed concerned about the child, though, then I'd have to do something different ... maybe a fenced yard for the child. (JK-Ha. Humor alert.)

Now, if I wanted to do all that you want to do with your hens with my hens, then I would have to spend TV time with them. The only hens that have ever enjoyed me handling them are the ones that my daughter spent TV time with. I can't catch a hen during the day to save my life. I can catch them at night. I can't check for mites for mites at night (living where there is a winter definitely helps), I just make sure they have a dustbath available and spread food grade diatomaceous earth around in the corners of the coop, the roosts, and the nests. They are friendly enough, with pecking only occurring from the odd broody hen that isn't used to be rooting around underneath her at egg collection time. At night, I can also put an apron on them without too much trouble. At night, they're pretty much like lambs.

I am so jealous (in a good way) of you getting American Bresse. How wonderful for you!

 

[Odelia]

I did not ask. What color of American Bresse are you getting? Why did you choose that color. I might be getting some this spring and would like to know how you made your decision. I am leaning toward the blue right now but that is mostly an esthetics thing.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have no idea how much handling may be too much. I never handle mine except to move them or examine them but mine are not pets. Others can give you much better advice about that than I can, but as long as they get to eat, drink, and sleep, I don’t see a huge problem with a lot of handling.

Your worst horror stories usually come from people with little or no actual experience. Often things are taken totally out of context. I remember a woman on here shooting a neighborhood rooster with a shotgun because he was raping her hens. I understand he was not her rooster but still!!!!!!! And many others think a rooster is brutalizing her hens when all they are doing is going through the normal mating procedure.

There is often a huge difference in what might possibly happen and what will actually happen. You are dealing with living animals so no one can give you any guarantees. There are things that can happen but they don’t necessarily happen all the time.

It is normal for a rooster to protect his flock. That’s an instinctive part of his job. If for some reason often known only to that rooster he sees you or someone else as a potential threat to his flock, he may defend them. Another thing that may happen. If he sees you as one of his hens or part of his flock, he may try to dominate you. Part of his job is to be dominant in the flock. How can he keep peace in his flock and break up fights if they turn around and beat the crap out of him? What good does it do to give a warning of danger if no one listens?

Some people handle their roosters a lot when they are growing up and never have a problem. Some that handle a lot have severe problems. Same thing with people that ignore a young rooster. I don’t know what the right amount of handling is or how you really prevent that. I basically ignore mine when they are growing up. When I remove the dominant rooster and give them the flock to be their very own, it’s not totally unheard of for that young cockerel to challenge me once or maybe even twice. It usually doesn’t come down to an actual attack but it may. They love to sneak up behind you, by the way. Usually one sort of flares his neck feathers and stared at me, assuming an attack position. When I see that, I slowly walk toward him. If he attacks I gently but firmly lift him with my foot and send him flying. I’m not trying to break bones, just show him that he is not the boss. Then I keep walking toward him. He practically always breaks and runs, the sign of submission. Often when I turn away to leave, he starts to sneak up on me from behind. I again walk him down. This may go on five or ten minutes. When I can turn away and walk away without him following he has accepted my dominance. He may try it once more, but that’s usually all. Consider him an adolescent learning his boundaries. Not all my cockerels that get to be the dominant rooster go through this, but probably more than half do.

As far as tearing up the hens. A lot of people don’t understand the mating ritual at all. A rooster dances for a hen to signal his intent. The hen squats which gets his weight into the ground through her entire body instead of damaging her legs. The rooster hops on and grabs the back of her head. This helps with his balance, gets him in the right position to hit the target, and the head grab is her signal to raise her tail out of the way. The rooster quickly touches vents and hops off. The hen stands, fluffs up, and shakes. This fluffy shake gets the sperm in the right spot inside the hen.

It doesn’t always work this way. Sometimes there is some running away and chasing involved, but as long as it ends with the hen squatting and the rooster doesn’t injure her, things are fine.

Where most of these horror stories come from is with adolescents. The cockerels and pullets mature at different rates. They both need to do their part. The cockerels may be driven by a huge surge of hormones they can’t come close to controlling and the pullets have no idea what is going on. Things can get pretty messy and violent at this stage until they both mature enough to each follow proper technique. Many a young cockerel has literally lost his head at this stage.

There is something else going on too. The mating ritual is not just about sex but is also about dominance. The one on bottom is accepting the dominance of the one on top, either willingly or by force. The cockerel has a strong instinct to be dominant so he can perform his flock master duties. He’s normally quite a bit bigger and stronger than the pullets that are often confused about what is going on because of immaturity. If you can get through this adolescent phase they normally settle down to a pretty peaceful flock but it can be trying. Occasionally you get a rooster or a hen that never matures into their proper roll, though that is pretty unusual. No one can give you guarantees but the vast majority settle down.

One thing you will read about is a barebacked hen. It’s not unusual for a hen to occasionally lose a feather during mating, which is no problem. But sometimes a hen gets her back so bare her skin is exposed. This is dangerous because the rooster can cut her with his claws during mating. If she bleeds the others can become cannibalistic. What can cause this? It may be improper technique, especially from an immature cockerel. Maybe the pullet or hen is resisting and he forces her to try to establish that dominance. With mine it has normally been that the hen has brittle feathers. That’s a genetic defect. Even with both of them having proper technique the feathers are so brittle they just break. If you see that, you can get a design for a hen saddle to protect her.

People have been raising free range chickens for thousands of years on small farms and plenty of young children running around and usually with the task of gathering the eggs. Occasionally there was a problem with a rooster so that rooster became Sunday dinner. Then they would just bring in another rooster. There are too many good ones out there to put up with a bad one. I grew up on a farm like that and gathering eggs and taking care of the broodies was one of my chores. I do feel like I have some experience. We never had a problem with a rooster attacking people.

The only reason you need a rooster is if you want fertile eggs. Everything else is personal preference. I always recommend that you keep as few roosters as you can and still meet your goals. That’s not because you are guaranteed problems with roosters, but the fewer you have the fewer problems you are likely to have. For your friend, that number is obviously zero. I have no idea what the right number is for you.

 

[Odelia]

Quote:
I have a friend who has several EE and the one that was sick and had to spend time in the house is still her nicest bird. It did spend quite a bit of quality time with her daughter watching TV. I don't bring my grown girls indoors. Hand feeding treats is the way to go with the bigger girls. They will do tricks for treats if you have the desire to teach them. Mine will jump for the treats. You just hold them a little higher each time and they get the idea. They do very well with clicker training. Though that is beyond me. My daughter saw this video and wants her own dancing chicken. So if any of you out there know how to teach them to do this please share.