Partridge pattern genetics question

[AndyCap]

Hey all. I have a few questions i was hoping you could help me out with. I will keep the breed out of the questions as it applies to a pattern in general and not a specific breed.

I have a partridge pullet who has incomplete lacing, this shows me that she is incomplete for the Pg gene responsible for the partridge pattern.

A lot of birds i have seen seem to be impure for the Pg patterning gene. At what point can you tell if a pullet has pure lacing (Pg/Pg)? A lot of birds i have seen have incomplete lacing and "smuttiness" that seems to indicate they are incomplete and only carrying one copy i.e (Pg/pg+)

When are you certain that the pullet is pure, or rather, at what age can you cull for this?

i want to breed partridge chickens that have pure lacing, but i need to find a pure bird to start off with and dont know when i can reliably identify one. I also dont want to cull my birds early if the lacing only comes through after a moult or at a later stage.

Partridge chickens are beautiful birds and i would love to breed some. I just need to nail down the genetics first, so i know what my starting stock is meant to be like!

Any thoughts welcome.

Andy

 

[Henk69]

The e-locus of your chickens may blur your pattern also.
Do you find the occasional pg+/pg+ = stippled hens too?

 

[tadkerson]

Hey all. I have a few questions i was hoping you could help me out with. I will keep the breed out of the questions as it applies to a pattern in general and not a specific breed.

I have a partridge pullet who has incomplete lacing, this shows me that she is incomplete for the Pg gene responsible for the partridge pattern.

A lot of birds i have seen seem to be impure for the Pg patterning gene. At what point can you tell if a pullet has pure lacing (Pg/Pg)? A lot of birds i have seen have incomplete lacing and "smuttiness" that seems to indicate they are incomplete and only carrying one copy i.e (Pg/pg+)

When are you certain that the pullet is pure, or rather, at what age can you cull for this?

i want to breed partridge chickens that have pure lacing, but i need to find a pure bird to start off with and dont know when i can reliably identify one. I also dont want to cull my birds early if the lacing only comes through after a moult or at a later stage.

Partridge chickens are beautiful birds and i would love to breed some. I just need to nail down the genetics first, so i know what my starting stock is meant to be like!

Any thoughts welcome.

Andy

Best partridge phenotype is expressed on birds that are homozygous for the brown allele at the E locus. You should not get lacing but penciling on the feather- penciling that follows the curvature of the feather. I would wait until sexual maturity to cull the females.

Males do not show the partridge pattern and will be a gold duck wing phenotype, Get females with good a secondary color pattern and then keep track of which chicks came from which male. Once you find a male that produces good patterned females, use him for breeding.

Tim

 

[AndyCap]

The e-locus of your chickens may blur your pattern also.
Do you find the occasional pg+/pg+ = stippled hens too?

that is what i am trying to gather about my "partridge" pekins. The majority of the feathering i am seeing is like the picture below on the left, smutty and all over the place.

But the all of the feathers below are from the same pullet. And some of her very small feathers do seem have the correct concentric pencilling, or at least, are closer to it.

Is it possible that the feathers on the right and left from my pullet could both come from a pg+/pg+ combination?



Even if she is on a eb background, if i could get the patterning gene pure it should turn the feathers into a correct pattern, like the example below from a partridge wyandotte

Left (eb) cock breeding partridge wyandotte pullet, and right Pg/Pg exhibition partridge wyandotte pullet.

 

[tadkerson]

Pullets that do not carry the pattern gene will not have penciling but will have the same plumage as a dark brown leghorn female. Stippled feathers- not penciled feathers. One pattern gene will produce some penciling. I have not carried out any experimental crosses with penciling but from my work with the pattern gene and other secondary color patterns it takes two pattern genes to get a good secondary color pattern. In order to obtain show quality penciling it also requires undocumented modifiers.

The answer is no, your pullet carries at least one pattern gene to get the secondary pattern on the feather. You may know this already but if you want to produce show males and females you will have to double mate.

Tim

 

[AndyCap]

Pullets that do not carry the pattern gene will not have penciling but will have the same plumage as a dark brown leghorn female. Stippled feathers- not penciled feathers. One pattern gene will produce some penciling. I have not carried out any experimental crosses with penciling but from my work with the pattern gene and other secondary color patterns it takes two pattern genes to get a good secondary color pattern. In order to obtain show quality penciling it also requires undocumented modifiers.

The answer is no, your pullet carries at least one pattern gene to get the secondary pattern on the feather. You may know this already but if you want to produce show males and females you will have to double mate.

Tim

Thank you for the response. I can see from your explanation that my female carries one copy, from what i have seen of my cockerel, he also only carries one copy.

Using Henk's genetic calculator that should give me a 1/4 chance of getting Pg pure in the offspring, and a 1/8 or 12.5% chance for a properly pencillled pullet.

If i can get the Pg pure then i should get half of my pullets correctly pencilled, Assuming my cockerel one carries one copy of Pg.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote: e^b is brown; it is also sometimes called asiatic partridge

 

[3riverschick]

How does the black striping on the hackle of the male fit into all this? I know in Leghorns it has an effect on the hue of the female's plumage.
Tanks,
Karen

 

[AndyCap]

e^b is brown; it is also sometimes called asiatic partridge

Thanks, i mentioned that as i was unsure if the pullet was eb or e+ based, from subsequent information i know it is on an e^b background.