Peas, wheat barley mix for laying hens?

[shaileen]

Hello I am looking into bulk feed for my flock and I have found a pea wheat barely mix, they offer added protein for 30 cents a pound, if I get 800 pounds that will be quite pricey. So I was just wondering is the pea wheat barley mix is sufficient for laying hens or would I need the extra protein?

 

[nuthatched]

You would need extra calcium, for one.
What's all in the mix and what percentages? I'd be leary of someone who offers a homemade mix, let alone offers to 'make it better' for a small fee.
@U_Stormcrow it's your area of specialty, sir.

 

[shaileen]

You would need extra calcium, for one.
What's all in the mix and what percentages? I'd be leary of someone who offers a homemade mix, let alone offers to 'make it better' for a small fee.
@U_Stormcrow it's your area of specialty, sir.

I’m not sure the exact percentages, I’ll have to ask, I was hoping to get some answers before contacting the person lol but my chickens do always have access to oyster shell for calcium and they are mostly free run

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I’m not sure the exact percentages, I’ll have to ask, I was hoping to get some answers before contacting the person lol but my chickens do always have access to oyster shell for calcium and they are mostly free run

You can't begin to assess the nutritional quality of a feed without knowing the ratios of inclusion. After that, we can guess based on published "Averages" for various ingredients, in the knowledge that there are no guarantees whatsoever that the ingredients will meet those averages.

Big difference between soft wheat and hard (red) winter wheat as well.

The general recommend is that peas shouldn't exceed 10% of the mix, there are some potentially concerning anti-nutritive properties, but they are a common plant-based way to drive up protein numbers.

Barley is high in beta glucans and potentially high in tannins, both to be avoided in significant quantitry. Beta glucans slow digestion (good in humans, not so much in poultry) and contribute to sticky poops, tannins and beta glucans can both inhibit (different) nutrient absorption. That doesn't make barley bad (or any other ingredient, used responsibly) - tannins (also peas) , beta glucans, lignins, lectins (peas), trypsin inhibitors (peas again) are all unavoidable components of food stuffs - its an excess of them that becomes concerning. You wouldn't drink a glass of metamucil every meal (beta glucans and lectins, i believe), or suck on a tea bag between bites (tannins) - neither should your birds.

Even if you can hit some protein % target, I'd be stunned if you end up with a good amino acid profile. Peas are a decent source of Lysine and Threonine, pound per pound better than grains (wheat, barley), but a poor source of Methionine and only an adequate source Tryptophan. Wheat and Barley, pound per pound, due to their low overall protein numbers, are poor sources of Lysine, Threonine, Tryptophan and very poor source of Methionine. Peas (in quantities recommended against for other reasons) can easily compensate for the the first two, but your Met level is going to be low no matter how those ingredients are proportioned - and its the first limiting amino acid.

I would... Recommend against.
/edit and did you mean the higher protein mix is $0.30/lb or an additional $0.30/lb??? I freely admit, I get unusually good mill prices from my local store, but my last purchase (05/30/22) was $0.251/lb for 16% protein "layer" feed with the typical 3.5% calcium +/-) and $0.322/lb for a 24% protein Game Bird Grower with a much more reasonable (for my mixed flock and hatchlings) 1.2% calcium +/-. Both feeds have very good amino acid profiles (the published portion anyways, and based on the ingredients, the others should be in the desired range). I buy 500# of feed a month during the growing season for all my animals, for comparison - the chickens and ducks get about 2/3 of that.

 

[shaileen]

You can't begin to assess the nutritional quality of a feed without knowing the ratios of inclusion. After that, we can guess based on published "Averages" for various ingredients, in the knowledge that there are no guarantees whatsoever that the ingredients will meet those averages.

Big difference between soft wheat and hard (red) winter wheat as well.

The general recommend is that peas shouldn't exceed 10% of the mix, there are some potentially concerning anti-nutritive properties, but they are a common plant-based way to drive up protein numbers.

Barley is high in beta glucans and potentially high in tannins, both to be avoided in significant quantitry. Beta glucans slow digestion (good in humans, not so much in poultry) and contribute to sticky poops, tannins and beta glucans can both inhibit (different) nutrient absorption. That doesn't make barley bad (or any other ingredient, used responsibly) - tannins (also peas) , beta glucans, lignins, lectins (peas), trypsin inhibitors (peas again) are all unavoidable components of food stuffs - its an excess of them that becomes concerning. You wouldn't drink a glass of metamucil every meal (beta glucans and lectins, i believe), or suck on a tea bag between bites (tannins).

Even if you can hit some protein % target, I'd be stunned if you end up with a good amino acid profile. Peas are a decent source of Lysine and Threonine, pound per pound better than grains (wheat, barley), but a poor source of Methionine and only an adequate source Tryptophan. Wheat and Barley, pound per pound, due to their low overall protein numbers, are poor sources of Lysine, Threonine, Tryptophan and very poor source of Methionine. Peas (in quantities recommended against for other reasons) can easily compensate for the the first two, but your Met level is going to be low no matter how those ingredients are proportioned - and its the first limiting amino acid.

I would... Recommend against.

Thanks so much, very informative, I will not be purchasing. I will stick to my 40lb bags from the feed store until I can find the proper stuff

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thanks so much, very informative, I will not be purchasing. I will stick to my 40lb bags from the feed store until I can find the proper stuff

If its a proper mill, and not a backyard operation, ask them to send you a photo of the guaranteed nutritional label. That's the "bible" in terms of comparing feeds. Allows a direct comparison of key dietary components.

 

[shaileen]

If its a proper mill, and not a backyard operation, ask them to send you a photo of the guaranteed nutritional label. That's the "bible" in terms of comparing feeds. Allows a direct comparison of key dietary components.

Okay awesome thanks so much, I do believe this is just a backyard operation, I seen the post on a Facebook chicken group, but I definitely won’t be considering that again if they don’t have a nutritional label. Looks like I need to really do some research lol

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Looks like I need to really do some research lol

You have no idea how good it is to see someone say that. If I can help. @ me.

 

[shaileen]

You have no idea how good it is to see someone say that. If I can help. @ me.

Perfect thanks again

 

[Brooks_]

You have no idea how good it is to see someone say that

Yes, many here take the good advice that is offered. But still very refreshing to hear it said.