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LittleMissPurdy said:
Wow Bruce....you invested alot to find results. Thank you for the information.
My husband has seen first hand 'chicken houses'..this was back in the 80's. From egg hatching , sorting of peeps(sexing) to delivering of the adults to the farms. Not something for the faint of heart. I/we can't even imagine the conditions of production houses now. You would think 'maybe' they would have gotten better with the knowledge/education we do have now...sanitation-bio, breeding, nutrition...but, sadly that doesn't seem to be the case with a number of "Production/Commercial" out fits...cattle, swine,and other animals. Hope you are well, thank you again.-Danielle
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i wanted to do this project first hand . so people ask what the big deal is i can tell them . now i have first hand experience to show them the importance.of nutrition and cleanliness . you would be surprised how many people ask how do you know or they are just chickens.
 
bruceh said:
hello all,
sorry i have not posted i have been very very busy. so i am going to post what the difference is between keeping birds in good conditions and poor conditions. i did this on purpose so i could personally see the results . i took a bunch of birds placed them in factory like settings. these are the conclusions.

birds kept in my normal healthy conditions thrived and did very well with minimal losses. in fact i never lost a bird because i did not know what happened. example possum or other pred. attacks.so therefore i know that healthy conditions work very well.
in the normal conditions i use mill feed , a certain formula i use ( fermented ) and the use of apple cider vinegar in the water and cleanliness

factory conditions experiment:

first i over crowded the brooder with about 70 chicks. at 3 weeks i lost a total of 20 chicks.. i never used acv in the water. the feed was junk feed and just wet not fermented the litter changed 1 time.
at 3 weeks they were moved to a shed and i set it up to the standards of a factory free range environment . they had access to the outside by the use of a door and a 5 ft run for 50 birds. i never used acv in the water and junk feed. the birds are fair at best. i have lost 9 more birds. no warning when the birds died. they were just dead.. some went down on the legs and immediately killed. today i went out and found a wry neck bird. first time i ever seen it . i also keep the area just like a factory.never cleaned at all. stinks to high heaven.

the results are obvious. . so it is your choice. i did the study for you all.

just so everyone knows when the group of meat birds are done the layers pullets will be rehabbed to top notch health. this will include all good feed acv. a bath for them. also i will have to spend hours disinfecting that particular coop.all my well kept birds are off the property . thanks to my neighbors for helping with this.

so out of 70 to date i have lost about 30.. sickens me. so call your food industry rep or FDA. i find this very cruel and preventable with 3 simple steps. acv in water, good feed, and most important cleanliness.

thanks for reading,


bruce h.
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Excellent findings Bruce. We are all appreciative of your time and effort to help all birds.
 
That was an interesting experiment.
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We have chicken houses (that is what I call them, no idea of the proper name) all around us, some as close as about a mile and a half down the road. Out of all 5 of them only one has a yard that the chickens can actually go out and be in the grass and sunshine. The other 4 are constantly closed up and only rarely are the slide windows opened up. I hate when it comes time for the chickens to go and then they get cleaned out, the smell is enough to gag a maggot and then they bulldoze out all the dead chickens (nothing but hawks circling above in the sky) which makes the smell even worse in the heat. I feel bad for chickens that spend their short lives that way
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LittleMissPurdy said:
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..Morning all, well you kids have been busy!!! I am moving like I need a cane...
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...good grief...
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Thank you to all that answered the lilac question. It is doing very well, really perked up!!! only lost 2- leaves, it is a really nice- sized plant.
Chad..
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I am so sorry your are having this issue. Really, It is only thing to be spiteful another to attack a persons financial means. I know how hard you work, been there, done that as a small business owner..well, was. Anyway, so sorry, will help ya out how I can
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Raven-
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I wish you could make it...I had a 'incubator -talk" with the hubby last night...he is such puddy in the hands....Love him!! Anyway, sorry you won't be there, was looking forward to meeting you & learning more about bators...
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I wanted to go, but I can't justify going when I have other things on my plate. Some other time, I hope.

bruceh said:
hello all,
sorry i have not posted i have been very very busy. so i am going to post what the difference is between keeping birds in good conditions and poor conditions. i did this on purpose so i could personally see the results . i took a bunch of birds placed them in factory like settings. these are the conclusions.

birds kept in my normal healthy conditions thrived and did very well with minimal losses. in fact i never lost a bird because i did not know what happened. example possum or other pred. attacks.so therefore i know that healthy conditions work very well.
in the normal conditions i use mill feed , a certain formula i use ( fermented ) and the use of apple cider vinegar in the water and cleanliness

factory conditions experiment:

first i over crowded the brooder with about 70 chicks. at 3 weeks i lost a total of 20 chicks.. i never used acv in the water. the feed was junk feed and just wet not fermented the litter changed 1 time.
at 3 weeks they were moved to a shed and i set it up to the standards of a factory free range environment . they had access to the outside by the use of a door and a 5 ft run for 50 birds. i never used acv in the water and junk feed. the birds are fair at best. i have lost 9 more birds. no warning when the birds died. they were just dead.. some went down on the legs and immediately killed. today i went out and found a wry neck bird. first time i ever seen it . i also keep the area just like a factory.never cleaned at all. stinks to high heaven.

the results are obvious. . so it is your choice. i did the study for you all.

just so everyone knows when the group of meat birds are done the layers pullets will be rehabbed to top notch health. this will include all good feed acv. a bath for them. also i will have to spend hours disinfecting that particular coop.all my well kept birds are off the property . thanks to my neighbors for helping with this.

so out of 70 to date i have lost about 30.. sickens me. so call your food industry rep or FDA. i find this very cruel and preventable with 3 simple steps. acv in water, good feed, and most important cleanliness.

thanks for reading,


bruce h.
Click to expand...

I suppose I am the only one that's a bit appalled. Studies have already been done and we all know how our food is treated before we buy it in the store. I thought that's why many of us have birds - to raise well cared for and humanly treated animals that provide us with our food (via eggs or meat). It bewilders me you lost 30 birds on purpose to prove a point that has already been proven time and again. Sorry, Bruce, but you had the power to save those 30 birds from a truly meaningless death. We are trying to avoid putting our birds through such a cruel way to live and die.
 
Reyvaughn said:
I wanted to go, but I can't justify going when I have other things on my plate.  Some other time, I hope.


I suppose I am the only one that's a bit appalled.  Studies have already been done and we all know how our food is treated before we buy it in the store.  I thought that's why many of us have birds - to raise well cared for and humanly treated animals that provide us with our food (via eggs or meat).  It bewilders me you lost 30 birds on purpose to prove a point that has already been proven time and again.  Sorry, Bruce, but you had the power to save those 30 birds from a truly meaningless death.  We are trying to avoid putting our birds through such a cruel way to live and die.
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I'm somewhat new to this group and I am more of a follower than a participant in the group. A lot of you seem pretty close knit and very friendly. I don't know Bruce so I really can't judge him but, I kind of agree with Reyvaughn. This is not new information. This experiment doesn't seem to have been necessary. Giving Bruce the benefit of the doubt, I have to assume his intentions were pure and good. As he said, he wanted to be able to say first hand that healthier condition are better for all parties involved, including the chickens. But again, all of us on this site certainly already knew this. Maybe to make this experiment not a total waste, Bruce should share his findings with an un-chicken-educated environment. It's the people who don't own chickens that need to know this information, as we already do.
 

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