Pics included! Cinnamon is pregnant!

[Duck Keeper]

Alright, sorry it took me a full day to reply!

Minerals have been put out. I usually just reserve the baking soda until they look like they'd appreciate a spoonful too, so I didn't put any out either. I sprinkled some minerals in some sugary stuff so they would definitely eat some right off.

I feed them both leashed separately from each other and the chickens so that they can get approximately the same amount of food, and so they can't get to all of the birds' feed. The only reason I was going to go back to sweet feed instead of plain is because it's pretty much sweet or plain here, nothing for milking goats as far as I've seen.

Do you guys think a small bale of alfalfa hay, or a fifty pound bag of horse alfalfa pellets would go farther? I'm thinking the pellets so they wouldn't waste so much, plus it's more concentrated.

Should I give them selenium/vitamin E now? I'm east of the Mississippi, if that matters (yay vagueness!). I don't even know if any feed stores around here have it, so I'm sure I'd have to order it online, but I'm not sure I'd have it in time. I could give it to the babies and the mothers after they kid if I didn't get it in time right?

Salt... What do I do? I've heard blocks get crapped on by the babies, so loose?? Is there loose stuff for cattle I can use? Only asking because I'm sure there isn't anything for goats around here. The goat section is only like five feet wide.

 

[Duck Keeper]

Cinnamon - She was a bottlebaby! So she bites. Joy. Other than that, she's very loving and always wants to be by my side when I'm out there. Probably partially because Tansy is all like "I AM YO LEADER GRR BOW TO ME." etc.

Tansy - She's the herd queen, and makes sure everyone knows it. She was wild when I got her, so she would never let me touch her like Cinnamon would. She's not so skiddish now, after lots of time spent sitting outside with them letting them get used to me.
See what I mean by her not being all that wide? I've been feeding her more, so she's gaining weight slowly. I hope she doesn't abort her kids or something because of it if she is pregnant... THAT would suck.

Tomahawk - the buck. He could have been a lot nicer if he had been wethered, but how would I have gotten little goaty babies?

Poor guy, I miss him, but it was the best thing to do. Nobody would buy a buck.

He had four teats!! I hope he passed that down to his kids.
This is an older pic from last fall.

Nutmeg - Poor spotty girl!

I miss Nutty. She was the first goat I got other than Boers, and the only one that I really, REALLY wanted for looks and crossbreeding. My spotty Nubian passed sometime after 7PM on Feb. 27th.

This is an old pic of her from last fall, when she was smaller.

 

[taraann81]

Quote:
?? That isn't a positive. Hope he doesn't pass that down.

Beautiful goats! Kids are so cute and so fun!

 

[Duck Keeper]

Quote:
?? That isn't a positive. Hope he doesn't pass that down.

Beautiful goats! Kids are so cute and so fun!

I do, because if does with four working teats have more than twins, they can handle all of them hopefully.

I want productive goats that don't need a lot of help getting their kids weaned. I mean, I'm not adverse to trying bottlefeeding them, but if I consistently have to rear their children for them, that's not exactly a trait I want passed on. Mothering ability is high on my list of "good" traits, and having more spots for the kids to nurse from is a big plus for me.
I'm not going for "show" Boers. I want big meaty guys that have a bunch of milk for their kids! I guess that's why I went with a couple crosses too, so they get more milk from the dairy side than just the straight up meat lines.

Here are a few links if you care to look at them.

Examples of different udders, some pictures of triplets all nursing at the same time because of four teats
http://www.jackmauldin.com/examples.htm

Four kids on a four teated doe video

This is on "why the ABGA changed the standard"
http://www.jackmauldin.com/4_teats.htm



- - -
EDIT: I've done a lot of research, and I prefer the more natural style of goat with better ability to care for their kids. I feel like that's the way they were intended to be, since four teats is a more hereditary trait than two. I'm not going to do CAE prevention, and I'm not going to deworm them unless they show actual signs of needing it. I hope to breed goats where their hooves naturally take care of themselves instead of me having to constantly bend over them and trim them up. If I don't disbud the kids, I'd like their horns to be as natural as possible instead of rubbing the hair off of their own necks. So, there you have it..?
Anyway, not trying to be rude, I just wanted you to know why I'd love for them to have four.

 

[Duck Keeper]

This is what I have written down as goals for my goat adventure:


When it comes to my goats, my mission is to produce a quality animal with high carcass yields and a number of other specifics that I'd like to point out. It is my goal that by describing MY version of "quality" I can better serve future buyers.

My version of "quality" consists of:

* Meaty animals that have a high resistance to worms
* Very rarely or never need hoof trimming
* Thick bodies, straight backs, nice meaty necks (none of that show-goat crap with the long "feminine" necks on does etc),
* Goats that finish well on grasses and browse (hay, bushes, pasture etc), with little to no supplemental feeding of grain
* An overall sound, hardy animal that gains meat quickly and efficiently
* Goats that are not susceptible to pregnancy toxemia
* Goats that give birth with little to no problems and vary rarely or never require assistance
* Goats that are free of CAE, CL, Johne's, Brucellosis, and any other number of goat diseases
* A four-teated goat with nice udder conformation that can consistently have large numbers of kids with high weaning weights
* A goat that has a natural hornset that doesn't lie too close to the neck like in show goats. The horns will rub the hair right off their necks, and/or another goat's leg can get caught between them and get hung up and die, or break a leg at the very least. (This is if I even decide not to disbud them as young kids.)
* Ennoblements are fine, but are not an indication of "quality" if the animal is heavily geared towards the showing aspect and not towards meat production. There is little sense behind having a thin, feminine neck (less meat), or being so specific over color. Color has nothing to do with the amount of meat a goat can produce.

Secondary goals include:

* Acquire 15-20 breeding does eventually
* Have very large pastures with lots of browse and brush, lush grasses
* Nice outbuildings (barn, hay storage, kidding areas), at least one run-in shelter for each large pasture
* Goats that are as close to fullblooded as possible, though recognizing that it may not be entirely attainable due to percentage does. High-percentage does are fine (and probably more desirable than high maintenance show goats), as long as they perform exceptionally well
* Again, Ennoblements are fine, but are not an indication of quality.
* Loud spots and a lot of color in my herd (eye appeal! along with personal preference)
* Wattles (won't breed against or clip them off, I sort of like them)
* Yearly testing for disease

I feel that right now I have a long way to go with my breeding in order to accomplish what I have set out to do. If it was feasible, I'd love to get into AI. Costs are prohibitive though, and the learning curve seems daunting. We'll see how it goes in the long run.

Of course, I'm still tweaking all of the things I wrote as time goes on. Like now, I think the maximum amount of does I'd like to have is around 10-15. Not 15-20.
It's good to have a plan.

 

[Lifesong Farm]

Ummmm I found out the hard way this year that even after a doe has tested neg she can test positive a few years later. My 4 yr old that I had to euthanize due to an issue cam up Pos this year. She has been Neg in the past. I am yanking all kids and giving formula. Their kids will be allowed to have moms milk but NONE from my current does or any new does in the future. I am ending the cycle before I get to many goats. I am back down to 2 does and I have 2 doelings so far out of my deceased girl and one of my remaining 2. I don't think the first timer that still needs to kid really has the potential to have it because I know for a fact her breeder pasturized the colostrum. However just to be safe I hope I am home to pull that kid/those kids before there is any chance of nursing.

Sorry I started to ramble but I. Wanted to let you know. I am not the only breeder who has had this happen.

 

[glenolam]

Quote:

Mine will eat up the minerals as is. If they need it badly enough, they'll know what to go for.

I feed them both leashed separately from each other and the chickens so that they can get approximately the same amount of food, and so they can't get to all of the birds' feed. The only reason I was going to go back to sweet feed instead of plain is because it's pretty much sweet or plain here, nothing for milking goats as far as I've seen.

Do you guys think a small bale of alfalfa hay, or a fifty pound bag of horse alfalfa pellets would go farther? I'm thinking the pellets so they wouldn't waste so much, plus it's more concentrated.

The only reason I've seen people reject sweet feed is that it contains crap the goats don't really need. But it's a preference thing. The alfalfa pellets might slow them down while eating grain and might also make the grain last longer. Again, a preference thing. I prefer the pellets.

Should I give them selenium/vitamin E now? I'm east of the Mississippi, if that matters (yay vagueness!). I don't even know if any feed stores around here have it, so I'm sure I'd have to order it online, but I'm not sure I'd have it in time. I could give it to the babies and the mothers after they kid if I didn't get it in time right?

Correct - in my area BoSe is an Rx item so I can only get it from the vet. Are you selenium difficent? Well, most areas are but you might benefit from talking to the vet or another local goat person.

Salt... What do I do? I've heard blocks get crapped on by the babies, so loose?? Is there loose stuff for cattle I can use? Only asking because I'm sure there isn't anything for goats around here. The goat section is only like five feet wide.

IMO, don't waste your money on the salt block. From what I've seen/been told/read it only deters them from licking up the minerals. I had a block at one time; my goats refused all other minerals until I took the block away.​

 

[Duck Keeper]

Okay, sounds good.
I need to get more minerals, so when I head to the feed store to pick that up I'll get some alfalfa pellets too (and chick feed, and chicken feed... sigh. At least I don't need more rabbit food too

).
I've been mixing their feed with Calf Manna to boost their nutrition, so adding a little alfalfa won't hurt.

I was mainly using sweet feed through the winter, but I do prefer to use the plain, so I guess I'll just stick to that. The chickens don't try to pick at the plain stuff like they did with the sweet feed. Much less stress and work now than before when I had to try and keep them out of the goats' feed.
I really hope I can build a nice barn one day... Where they're living now is more like a glorified chicken coop, heh.

And I figured about the salt block. Where I got Cinnamon, the entire thing was just licked like candy. It must make them awfully thirsty!

 

[Duck Keeper]

Quote:
Cinnamon's breeders practice CAE prevention on their farm, so I'm not too worried about it. Tansy is just a scrub goat, and most of her kids will go for meat. I realize it can pass between goats and such, but I'm just not all that worried by the disease. Good, healthy goats with great immune systems can have it and never show symptoms. They might not even have it though, as the less expensive test is only for detecting antibodies (please correct me if I'm wrong though, maybe I've been reading outdated information in my goat books). Perhaps the goat was in contact with the virus at some point, but fended it off? I'd like that immunity to be passed down to her kids in the long run, and feeding pasteurized milk with absolutely nothing alive seems counterproductive to that. I'll have all my does tested and keep a closed herd once I get the numbers slightly higher. I doubt I'd have enough genetic variety with two goats to effectively maintain a closed herd setting where I'm at now. There would be too much inbreeding and linebreeding.
I'm one of the people that feel it's not quite right to steal a mama's kid from her. I mean, I understand why people do it, others doing it doesn't bother me, but I'd like to do everything I can to have a kid taken care of by its mother. Anyway, I totally understand why CAE is the big scary thing it is.