Pied Gene In Chickens Believers😋, Discussion Thread.

[MysteryChicken]

I have a Swedish Flower Hen that was 'pied' as a chick and juvenile. Now she looks more mottled. But as a chick her whole front was white and her whole back was blue. Reminded me of a quail. You can see part of her on the far left of this photo as a youngster. The individual pic is of her now. View attachment 2282987 View attachment 2282986

She's pretty.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Bigfoot from chickhood to adolescence.

 

[nicalandia]

I have read the research done by Dr. Punnett, they crossed Barred Rock with Black Sumatra That wa carrying recessive mottling(confirmed by crossing back to the original Sumatra hen) if anyone comes to a different conclusion after reading that research it's being very stubborn,

 

[MysteryChicken]

I have read the research done by Dr. Punnett, they crossed Barred Rock with Black Sumatra That wa carrying recessive mottling(confirmed by crossing back to the original Sumatra hen) if anyone comes to a different conclusion after reading that research it's being very stubborn, De

Not being stubborn, open minded. There's a difference. I'm a very open minded person.
Anything is possible.

 

[nicalandia]

Not being stubborn, open minded. There's a difference. I'm a very open minded person.
Anything is possible.

I took a very close look on the research, when it comes to genetics You Will not find anyone more dedicated on the subject. I can guarantee You that the mutation on that research was mottling, I did not want to mention this(what I am about to tell You) as not to give You more ideas but You may want to research more about Dr. Smyth line of auto inmune Vitíligo That may look similar to mottling or pied

You may want to research about the difference of Piedbald and Vitíligo and mottling, with That said I Will no longer post on this thread

 

[The Moonshiner]

Not being stubborn, open minded. There's a difference. I'm a very open minded person.
Anything is possible.

Open minded in this case means open to all possibilities. You always seem to get into one idea and thats all you want to hear or consider.
You may get a lot further if you were more open minded.
I have yet to make sense of what you're wantinh to say is pied. Just a mottled bird with excessive amounts of white?
Those do exist but they're the mottled gene? Are you just wanting to rename a known gene as pied?
Instead of this pied or not discussion it would be much more interesting in you researching and discussing the mottling gene and its mutations.

 

[NatJ]

They new what mottling was, but what they were studying was different then mottling.
The pattern Pie was characterized by its resemblance to Exchequer leghorn, but had more extension of white then usual.

The mottling they "knew" was a DOMINANT gene. (Says so in the first paragraph.) He called this new thing "pied" because it was recessive, so it had to be a different gene than the dominant one they already knew about.

I don't see the "more white."...Of course white barring adds extra white.

Not what I meant.

Everyone has their own point of view on things, & opinions are welcome.

Then what did you mean?

You're talking about a gene that has "more white," but the paper you post does not show more white.

You say they "knew" about mottling, but the very document you posted talked about a mottling that is NOT what we now call "mottling."

You want a "pied" gene, but the paper you post to support it has a description that exactly matches what we now call "mottling."

It looks pretty clear to me:
a) the pied gene DOES exist
b) we now CALL it "mottling"
c) the name has changed, but the gene has not changed

Plenty of genes have gotten re-named over the years. That's mostly because several people discovered the same gene and gave it different names, so later someone picked just one of those names to use. (Or they found alleles of the same gene, which all got combined under one name when they were found to be allelic.)

 

[NatJ]

The pattern Pie was characterized by its resemblance to Exchequer leghorn, but had more extension of white then usual.

Looking through the paper again this morning, here's a quote I missed last night:

"When the first pied birds appeared in your matings we were at once struck by their resemblance to a breed known as the 'Exchequer Leghorn'; and in respect of this plumage character we were prepared to find this breed behaving as a recessive to the black."

"we were able to obtain experimental data in support of our supposition."

"We do not therefore feel any doubt that the Exchequer Leghorn is a recessive pied bird, genetically similar in respect of this character to the pied birds which turned up in the course of our own experiments."

So no, he does NOT say it had more white than the Exchequer Leghorn. He says the appearance is the same and the genetics work the same (both are recessive). He does not say that it is the "same" gene in both, because of course he hasn't test-mated them to each other.

Edit to add: the part I'm quoting is on page 3-4 of the .pdf, showing page numbers 209-210 of the original work that was scanned to make the .pdf

 

[MysteryChicken]

I took a very close look on the research, when it comes to genetics You Will not find anyone more dedicated on the subject. I can guarantee You that the mutation on that research was mottling, I did not want to mention this(what I am about to tell You) as not to give You more ideas but You may want to research more about Dr. Smyth line of auto inmune Vitíligo That may look similar to mottling or pied


View attachment 2283125

You may want to research about the difference of Piedbald and Vitíligo and mottling, with That said I Will no longer post on this thread

I've looked into that subject before.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Looking through the paper again this morning, here's a quote I missed last night:

"When the first pied birds appeared in your matings we were at once struck by their resemblance to a breed known as the 'Exchequer Leghorn'; and in respect of this plumage character we were prepared to find this breed behaving as a recessive to the black."

"we were able to obtain experimental data in support of our supposition."

"We do not therefore feel any doubt that the Exchequer Leghorn is a recessive pied bird, genetically similar in respect of this character to the pied birds which turned up in the course of our own experiments."

So no, he does NOT say it had more white than the Exchequer Leghorn. He says the appearance is the same and the genetics work the same (both are recessive). He does not say that it is the "same" gene in both, because of course he hasn't test-mated them to each other.

I'll find the part he mentions more white. I've read the whole thing 3 times.