Pied Pattern

[rockyspringsfarm]

I need to ask a question of the experienced breeders on this list.....

To produce the simple pied pattern do you add a white male or white female (or does it matter which) to your color pen ? Will the resulting chicks from the white parent crossed to the color parent exhibit the "pied" color pattern.

Thank you for your help.

Peggy

 

[Kev]

Pied is a mutant gene of its own. Crossing a color with a white will just give you what's known as split whites. Split whites are colored all over like normal save for varying amounts of white feathers on the flights.

If you want pied, will have to at least buy one pied then breed offspring back to it to get more pieds. Other options are getting a pied pair or one pied and a white.

Pied is also a little funny, as in pure pied don't have much white, in fact can look same as split whites- colored everywhere save for some white on flights and maybe chin too. This is because the pieds with patches of white are genetically half pied half white.. so those kind of pieds cannot breed true, always throwing pure pied, 'patchy pieds' and/or solid whites.

Pied bred to pied will give you 50% pied offspring, 25% whites and 25% of those pure pieds(often called dark pied).

Pied bred to white will give you 50% pied and 50% whites.

If you get just one pied, be aware that pied bred with a India Blue will produce all blue looking chicks, some will have white in their wings, some will not have any white at all. All of them are needed for more pied offspring though.

Beware, I've seen some sellers try to claim that breeding say, a India Blue with a white will give you pieds- ignore those, this really is not true at all.

p.s. it doesn't matter what sex, a pied peacock bred with white peahen will give same results as vice versa.

 

[ColbyNTX]

I have 2 peachicks that came out of an IB hen and a white cock. I guess 1 or both of the birds are carrying a recessive pied gene? Also, I have a white chick that came out of silver pied parents. Is it also carrying the pied gene?

 

[rockyspringsfarm]

Thank you Kev.....not long after I posted that question I found some information that told me the "pied" was a mutation all its' own and the way that I would have to get pied was to use a pied bird....I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts on the genetics. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around some of it so I will start slowly and work my way forward !! Thanks again for taking the time to post such a nice reply to my question.

Peggy

 

[Kev]

Peggy, thank you for such a nice appreciation.

Always glad to help whenever I can.

Pied is a difficult one to work with for someone completely new to genetics due to the way it works(the way it doesn't "breed true"). The real short answer, you'd be safe with either a pied pair or one pied and one white. Or even something like one pied peacock and a couple peahens in both pied and white. Guaranteed to get at least half pied chicks that way.

I really like the pieds, think they are so flashy and how every egg hatches out a surprise out of a pied pen.

Colby, if the IB hen is pure IB, then all of the chicks will be IB split white. If you get a pied out of this pair, it would be proof the hen is split pied. Did you get a pied?

Whites out of silver pieds do have "something different", exactly what it is, is not known yet(?). For example a 'regular' white bred with a silver pied will not throw silver pieds. "Silver pied white" (like your white)bred with silver pied are supposed to throw silver pieds. As to what/why/specifics, don't know... for longer answer see below.

The usual information is that pied and white are alleles, which means they both are located on exactly the same spot on the same chromosome. This means a bird can only be: pure for white, have one white one pied(that's the pied with patches of white, the same reason they cannot breed true) or pure for pied- which are usually all colored, except for some white on the flights, chin, perhaps an odd small spot on top of head or a very few white feathers somewhere else on body. If this is really true, it also means a white *cannot* be split for pied. So with that I don't know what or why whites out of silver pieds are somehow genetically different from other whites. I do know from personal experience that a regular white or a white out of white eyeds will not produce silver pieds when bred with a silver pied.. I have a suspicion that silver pieds probably/may have a different/new mutation unique to them due to this plus it could explain why whites out silver pieds are 'somehow genetically different'.

I REALLY would love comments from anybody who bred either a white out of silver pieds to a regular pied(no silver pied in background) or bred a silver pied to a regular pied(again no silver pied in background). Would like to know what sort of pied these crosses produced.

 

[ColbyNTX]

Quote:
Colby, if the IB hen is pure IB, then all of the chicks will be IB split white. If you get a pied out of this pair, it would be proof the hen is split pied. Did you get a pied?


Yes, she hatched 3 eggs, 1 IB and 2 pied! These are not my birds but the man I got them from only has the IB hen and a white cock. I saw both birds and she was not pied and he was solid white.

Here are the babies at about 2 1/2 weeks.

I'm not doubting or questioning anything you have said, just trying to figure out how these 2 pied chicks came from an IB and white cross.

 

[deerman]

Quote:
Colby, if the IB hen is pure IB, then all of the chicks will be IB split white. If you get a pied out of this pair, it would be proof the hen is split pied. Did you get a pied?


Yes, she hatched 3 eggs, 1 IB and 2 pied! These are not my birds but the man I got them from only has the IB hen and a white cock. I saw both birds and she was not pied and he was solid white.

Here are the babies at about 2 1/2 weeks.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/30095_pied_chicks_009.jpghttps://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/30095_pied_chicks_013.jpg


I'm not doubting or questioning anything you have said, just trying to figure out how these 2 pied chicks came from an IB and white cross.

The ib hen is split pied....a bird split pied will not show white flights (thats split white) you can't tell by looking at a bird it is split pied. It takes a bird pied or split pied and a white or split white to get pied. Unless your breeding pieds, whites, or dark pied.

 

[SunBaked]

I'm starting to understand some of how the genetics work thanks to you guys and threads like these. Thanks for all the info you guys are giving.

Wow ColbyNTX those sure are pretty chicks. They are going to be beautiful.

 

[ColbyNTX]

Peggy, I wasn't trying to hijack your thred, just also trying to understand this pied gene. Thanks Deerman and Kev! So, these two pied chicks are brother sister, brother brother or sister sister so they won't be bred togather. What would be the best choice to breed them with to get a high percent of pied chicks? My white out of a silver pied, BS, IB?

 

[Kev]

Quote:
Yes, she hatched 3 eggs, 1 IB and 2 pied! These are not my birds but the man I got them from only has the IB hen and a white cock. I saw both birds and she was not pied and he was solid white.

Here are the babies at about 2 1/2 weeks.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/30095_pied_chicks_009.jpghttps://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/30095_pied_chicks_013.jpg


I'm not doubting or questioning anything you have said, just trying to figure out how these 2 pied chicks came from an IB and white cross.

Congrats on nice looking pieds!

Chicks are proof the IB hen is split pied. She's carrying the pied gene 'hidden'.. pure luck she was mated with a white male.

When people talk genetics, it is normal/for simplicity's sake to assume the animals involved in the question are 'pure'. So when someone asks what do you get by breeding an IB to a white, the 'right answer' is all IB split white, because most IB are not pied or white carriers. That IB hen is an exception, she happened to be a pied split as evidenced by pied chicks.. now we know in this particular case we need to change the breeding question to what do you get by breeding a white male to IB split pied hen? Answer: 1/2 pied, 1/2 IB split white.

Your white out of silver pied would be the best one for more pieds- chicks would come out half pied half white. Breeding pied to IB or BS will not give pieds... unless they are surprises like that IB hen and happen to be pied or white splits.

For maximum number of pied chicks, need to breed dark pied(genetically pure pied) to white as that will result in 100% pied chicks.