Pine and Cedar shavings are dangerous

[lazy gardener]

The only time I buy shavings is when I'm hatching chicks, and then, that's merely for convenience. I use dry leaves in the coop and run. In the summer, I add grass clippings and garden debris. IMO, the leaves are the best bedding option available. My coop has not been cleaned since October, and it smells very fresh. The flock LOVE playing in the leaves, and they make a nice dust bath also.

 

[BobDBirdDog]

Those cedar toxins are just what you want in your pets bed as it keeps away fleas and other PITA critters and many pet beds are packed with it or you can pack it in the bed if you feel like it. Hamsters seem to like it and so do little baby chicks.

God help my G grand parents and grand parents as they had cedar beds, cedar chest, cedar walls and seems I remember an old cedar hairbrush. Come to think about it, they are still heirlooms. Then again no one was chewing on the wood and digesting it.

Out in my neck of the woods, I cant say that i see the chickens running away every time they see a pine tree or cedar, nor have I seen any dead chickens underneath either tree, but I have seen some of them make nest underneath them and fly up and roost for the evening in both cedar and pines! For that matter, I see wild birds in both cedar and pines, and occasionally one dead beneath it, but I suspect someone neglected another cat and its gone wild and hunting tweety birds.

Most all houses would not be built out pine nor most all furniture we take for granted, and I have not seen may house builders falling over dead as that saw dust is inhaled and gets all over them as well. Wait, that includes me! I cant tell you how much sawdust and shavings I have bathed in. The only harmful elements were when I got a splinter or someone dropped a board.I should be dead by now according to the toxin report.
Heck even little Jimmy Joe in the boy scouts gets a merit or two with the pine promotion if he enters the annual PINE WOOD DERBY race.

If I am not mistaken, certain types of violin rosins are made from the sap of cedar, maybe pine as well and violinist seem to be fairly healthy, so the sap from the trees must not be creating the toxins.

No! What I do suspect is the fact that the EPA and/or other entities is sticking their nose in and saying that man made chemicals are to be added to the shavings as to keep from spreading all types of fungus, aphids, insects and whatever else they try to regulate and control, that which could easily be transported (in bulk) to another state or region local or abroad.

I know natures plants can sometimes be Harmful, but I feel people are really over thinking it!

In short I don't think either of the shavings are as bad as the OP is making it out to be, but there are several solutions. Buy NATURAL products that are local and non chemically treated, or you could just try plastic. I cant imagine how much more I would have to pay for special chicken litter mulch, much less know where to start shopping for it.

Just saying!

 

[ShrekDawg]

I don't think they meant it was toxic for people, only animals, but then again they said all animals so who knows hah

But yeah, we're completely surrounded by pine trees and I've used pine shavings in the coop since I got them over a year ago and have never had an issue. However, if one was concerned, they do also make pine pellets which I am trying out now.

That said, I don't think the actual tree, either cedar or pine, is the issue. It's the fumes produced from the shavings. But get a non aromatic one or kiln dried, or natural like you said, and it should be fine.

But that said, I personally would not risk it and while it might have worked for your animals, I wouldn't do it. Even if I might for a chicken, I never would for a hamster or other caged animal as they're much more confined and exposed to it and animals have died, even if some don't.

But here it's actually harder to get cedar, they only sell it at Wal-Mart and some farm supply stores and it's a smaller bag and more expensive.

I can get a huge bale of pine shavings for like $5 or $6 at the local store and at TSC I can get one I think the same size or a little smaller for $5.99 but I don't like their shavings as well as our local store's. The pine pellets are $5.99 too. The cedar and aspen are like less that half the size and the same or double the price. So for me it's just easier to get pine and I like it better anyway and no risk.

But I also live close to a lot of stores.

In the run though I'm going to try deep litter with several inches of wood chips and then several inches of leaves, grass clippings, garden scraps, etc. Supposedly it composts and provides bugs/entertainment for the chickens. And it's free because we have a few trees we want to get rid of and might rent a chipper and if not, we can get them from the dump or a local company. And the leaves, well like I said we're surrounded by pine trees but also a few oaks, maples, etc. And other trees that drop their leaves. Supposedly the varying partical size of the chips breaks down faster than the shavings. I would do deep litter in the coop too but it doesn't have a dirt floor and I don't want to rot the floor.

But yeah.

I think they got a little carried away, pine is not toxic. Especially not in a well ventilated coop.

And also, if it was, then people would have nothing left to build their coops with lol

 

[speckledhen]

Well, I see this discussion is still in play. Years later, I still use plain dry pine shavings as bedding, nothing else except for hens who are crippled with arthritis-in winter, I add some hay to the shavings for them to be warmer since they cannot roost and sleep on the floor.

I do not use cedar. The reason is that avian species are completely different than mammals or anything else. They digest food differently and they are highly sensitive to heavy aromatics like citronella or an all-cedar bedding. Hanging around cedar trees is not the same as being a few inches above a solid bed of aromatic cedar shavings, day in and day out; I see folks mentioning that they have cedar trees, not the same concentration of oils you get in a bad of shavings they are laying in and digging in, stirring up every day.

I used to get a bag of cedar just to put a couple of handfuls of cedar in the bottom of each nest box, then fill the rest with pine shavings or hay/straw, depending on whether winter or summer (hay is warmer in winter). There's nothing wrong with that, but I still after all these years would never just put cedar for my barn bedding exclusively. And I've ceased using it at all, only for simplicity's sake. I just sprinkle DE in the nests to keep bugs from being able to set up residence and occasionally, spray Orange Guard in the cracks, an animal safe natural, citrus-oil based bug killer.

Adding that some say they've used cedar and have not lost birds. Well, you are lucky in that regard. How do you know they are not really having a little difficulty with it unless they have noticeable symptoms? Maybe they are, maybe not. With chickens, sometimes, you must be very, very observant and in tune with what's happening with them to notice small signs. Some people are not that observant, don't pay attention that closely, to state a truth. There are some old timers who advocate using kerosene to kill worms in chickens or something of that sort, but I wouldn't advise that, either. Maybe it didn't outright kill the chicken, but not a good practice to get started.

 

[mikesharonh]

I am using pine shavings over lime. It is amazing how well it keeps the odor down. I need to change it, do I put a layer of lime and then pine shavings over top of the existing or rake up the old, put in the garden and start new? Thank you

 

[speckledhen]

I am using pine shavings over lime. It is amazing how well it keeps the odor down. I need to change it, do I put a layer of lime and then pine shavings over top of the existing or rake up the old, put in the garden and start new? Thank you

Welcome to BYC. What kind of lime? Hopefully, not hydrated lime. I've never put lime inside my coops/barn, not even agricultural lime, only in a pen when I immediately till it into the ground. So, can't recommend it inside the coop at all.

 

[harveyhorses]

I don't use Cedar because it makes me wheeze. I have allergy induced asthma, so I figure it can't be good for them to be stuck in a coop with it. There is a huge difference between shavings (big flakes) and sawdust. Never had a problem with the compressed bags I get at whatever feed store is closest.
I would not use leaves or grass clippings, too hard to keep clean, and the (mine anyway) hens would eat the grass clippings.

 

[chogo7]

Has anyone tried soil for the bedding for chicks? I ask this because I am an efficiency person and want to use the soil afterwards for fertilizer. What would be the pros and cons of using dirt or soil that is not dry but not damp either?

 

[Fancychooklady]

Has anyone tried soil for the bedding for chicks? I ask this because I am an efficiency person and want to use the soil afterwards for fertilizer. What would be the pros and cons of using dirt or soil that is not dry but not damp either?

I generally introduce my chicks to dirt at 2 weeks of age to help build their immunity. Dirt would work but it would be time consuming and not very cost efficient for most people. Sugar cane straw, hay and the various other straws are all good organic matter for your garden. I also use horses steam cut chaff . The challenge with anything is keeping it out of the feeders and waters.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

There are 100 years or more of research from reputable University and College animal science departments into litter or bedding for chickens or other poultry species. To now kick against pine shavings in chicken coops or runs is akin to science denial. Just my humble opinion but there is more to this than meets the eye.