Pitbulls? Don't want to have an incorrect understanding of the breed

[Halfpasthen]

One thing that I definitely saw a lot of when I was training was ppl loving their dog into bad behavior. Just because you love your dog and never raise your voice or your hand to them and you feed them every day does not guarantee a well behaved dog. Just like rearing in any species, boundaries, limitations, corrections are all important. It's not enough to love a dog. You have to teach them how to behave and set boundaries and limitations.

 

[Halfpasthen]

I have two pit bull terriers right now, and have two others previously. All shelter dogs: one current dog was very abused as a youngster, came to the shelter with wounds, probably from a fighting dog situation.
All are very good with humans, and will kill any critter in their fenced back yard. Good with our house cats, but no others. They bark and look impressive at the door, a good thing, IMO.
They are terriers!!! Most were developed to kill vermin, and pits were developed first for bear and bull baiting, then for dog fighting. Good with people generally, and animal aggressive. And if one does bite, it is likely a serious bite!
No dog should be left alone with small children especially!!!
Dogs tend to see babies, toddlers, young children, as different issues, and teenagers more like adults. A screaming flailing baby or toddler can trigger aggression in any breed dog.
And many dog bite incidents are with boys, who can be very pushy.
Children, and so many adults, have no idea how to read dog body language, part of the problem.
I did ramble on, sorry.
Never thought I'd like any terriers, but these dogs are pretty nice. And very short haired, so good, no hair bunnies in the house at all!
All of ours have been fine with toddlers and children visiting, and we do supervise.
Mary

I die inside when I see how people allow their children to act around animals.

The incident I refered to for reference was truly unprovoked and mom was standing right there. Child stood up and dog charged from across the room. Surely the dog was triggered by something but the child wasn't near the dog, looking at the dog, or engaging with the dog. The dog had lived with the child all their life. Scary that something like that can have such consequences.

But 100% agree that most times the kids are really asking for it and don't know it and that's where parenting comes in. But one thing I have learned after working in a pet store is a surprising amount of humans can't read animals worth a crap.

 

[Bitofablonde]

As someone who has worked in the vet industry for 11 years, can I just say thank you @black_cat for doing your research prior to getting a puppy. American pitbull terriers and American stats are very different then the "pit mixes" then you find in the shelters. Depending on where you live you maybe be able to find a purebred, but it isn't always the case.

Any breed and I mean ANY breed can be aggressive to humans and animals. Breeders need to breed for temperament just as much if not more then the breed for the 'looks' of the prospective puppies. Genetics, and the temperaments of the parents play a huge factor in the overall soundness of mind of a dog. But the other big factor is exposing and socializing that little puppy to literally everything and anything that might cause the dog to be fearful and react. Unfortunately by 16weeks of age puppies have some 'set' ideas on things and that can be hard to correct as they get older, though in the right hands, (someone with experience) those ideas can be changed and the desired behavior can be achieved.

My own Border collie, is a shelter dog, horrible life by the time she was 1.5, multiple homes, undersocialized with life, people, dogs etc. She was emaciated, missing hair, terrified of men the whole meal deal. But after 2 years of hard work with her, you would never know. She's great with kids, she can be standoff-ish with men but never aggressive and she is good with dogs. She's particular about the dogs she interacts with, but from working with her and reading her I know what she can and can't handle. So I always monitor closely and never put her into a situation that would cause her to react. She's almost 11 now and becoming a cranky old lady lol but people never suspect such a bad start to her life because of how she is now. She's a sweet girl to both men and women, she's just very aloof with people in general including her family lol.

I've worked with sooooo many dogs of all kinds. Any dog, of any size or breed or breed mix can bite in the right circumstances. It's NEVER ok to assume that your beloved dog would never bite anyone. Always be cautious, learn to read their body language and do your best to never put them in a situation that makes them uncomfortable. Socialize the crap out of that puppy, and do positive reward based training.

Best of luck to you!
Liz

 

[Folly's place]

Did you know that there's a documented case of a Dachshund killing a person in the USA? And I met one who really tried, too. Sometimes it's not so much about size, as attitude!
Terriers in general were bred to be enthusiastic killers of smaller animals, and aren't usually suitable for protection work because, while it can be easy to train 'forward', the 'back off' command is much harder.
So, GSDs, who are herding dogs originally, are aggressive, but interested in listening to their handler, and so are more controllable. A huge oversimplification, but not far off.
Agree that most pit bull terriers are defined by looks, not written pedigrees, and certainly many who land in shelters fit that description. Mine are obviously 'purebred' by looks and temperament, and come with varied backstories. And reasonable shelters won't rehome seriously human aggressive dogs, and shouldn't.
The only dog we've ever had who bit people was a Dalmation, who would be in guard mode, and people thought he was cute and harmless, thanks to that awful movie (101, you know).
Mary

 

[Folly's place]

Also, good breeders will do puppy testing, which helps select the right puppy for it's future purpose.
There are miserable wretches in every breed, and I have met young puppies who were little monsters, in several breeds. Dogs that would take an expert to manage, and no expert would buy such a puppy in the first place. Sad, and dangerous.
Too many pits don't find homes, when they would be lovely pets for many people, because of this fear. However, managing any large strong dog may not be for the first time dog owner. We all started out not knowing much about raising a dog, and have to learn. It's not intuitive, it takes both experience and especially learning, to understand what the dog is actually thinking, and how they process information. And different techniques work, depending on the individual dog.
Mary

 

[Folly's place]

@Halfpasthen x2! And it's the 'feed him another cookie and he'll be better' approach; no boundaries, no corrections for bad behavior, just 'ain't he cute', until he really isn't.
Mary

 

[21hens-incharge]

Yes, but is it related to genetics at all, or are pitbulls strong but sweet and all trained to be bad? Becasue that's kind of what you're saying, opr at least what it sounds like

I will try to answer....

It isn't ALL genetics but genetics play a huge roll in how the dogs (any dogs) temperament will be.
It is not ALL in the training but a dog with a nice temperament can be made aggressive by poor, inadequate or worst case deliberate training to be reactive.

A fearful dog is highly likely to feel the need to defend themselves. That applies to all breeds.

The temperament of the parent dogs affects what the temperament of the pups will be.
Humans can influence that temperament both positively and negatively.

 

[Ascholten]

Any animal can attack, no matter how nice or 'sweet' it is. Even the 'sweetest' breeds can be vicious. Even the most 'terrifying' breed can be teddy bears. Training has a lot to do with it, and the dogs temperament too. Some or more disposed to being a tougher breed, but it all boils down really to YOUR animal.

What do you get when you cross a pit bull with Lassie? A dog that rips your arm off then runs for help .......

Aaron

 

[sourland]

Also, im curious why you are arguing against the pitbull when your profile picture is one
I don't mean this as like a snotty sassy little comment im just honestly curious

Hate to answer for someone else, but there is a significant difference between being 'realistic about' and 'arguing against'. @chickentrains is simply expressing objective knowledge.

 

[Leahsandora11]

I've had really mixed experiences with pits and bully breeds. I think the biggest disservice to pitbulls is the advocates on both side of the issue. You've got one side saying all pits are risky. And they have a point that any large powerful breed (a terrier at that) needs a highly responsible and experienced owner. There are breeds that make me way more nervous than pits but any powerful dog in the wrong hands can be very dangerous.
The other side of this is people who deliberately try to paint all pits at nanny dogs that are so good natured they can be left alone with their children. And it's all how you raise them. And frankly that's crap and that's such dangerous misinformation. It causes ppl to put their dogs in incredibly dangerous situations bc they have a false sense of security.
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I believe aggression has a genetic component. I also think environment and raising plays a big part on how an animal will behave.

I don't trust ANY dog 100% in all situations. Any dog has the capacity to bite and cause harm given the right circumstances.

A very dear friend of mine has always had pits. Has had many she loved and trusted unconditionally. One day her 2 year old pit that she raised from a puppy bit her child in the face in an unprovoked incident that left her child in the hospital and her very shaken. I wonder sometimes if pits are prone perhaps to some neurolical conditions? A good amount of stories of dogs that suddenly attack their owner or family members.

Anyway, it's such a tricky subject. I just err on the side of giving a lot of respect to powerful dogs and understanding that they're not the right breed for every person but I would say that about a lot of breeds.

As it were lol as I groomer I think schnauzers bite me more than anything else lol.

yes, i like how you see from both points of view, I wouldn't trust any dog 100% either in every situation id have to know the dog very well and still, any dog can get frustrated and snap.