PLEASE CRITIQUE!!!!!!! my run design!!!!

[Davaroo]

See, now the whole story unfolds. I should learn to ask first...

But the challenges are still the same.

You'll do alright, Im sure.

 

[PAChickenChick]

Quote:
Elderoo...THANKS for that...I read it and it was great! Ofcourse when I read something it always pops a gazillion questions in my head...so I'm gonna fire them off at you if you don't mind...

Sand...I get it...he sure said it enough

So here's my question...you use sand on your floor and nothing else? Straw in the nests though? How often do you change your sand? (I'm doing 4 standards in a 4Wx5Lx5H coop) (oh and run will not be attached to un-mobile coop...run will be moved every day once chickens are in it...even during snow.)

Ok...next is the spray he's talking about completely went over my head...stove oil/crude oil/ and what ever the other one was...can I get my hands on them today or what would you suggest? And there again...spraying it on the sand...what if the chickens pecked and ate the sand...wouldn't that make them sick?

Feed...got the green..and actually that's music to my ears...what else do you do for food...like can you give me specifics on grains and YOU get them..cause I think depending on the type it might be best for me to grind them as I need them...assuming that's something I can actually do.....

And lastly...I didn't think I could have an open/missing wall. I get the advantage of air and dust control...but I have bone chilling winters.... 3 walls wouldn't be enough I'm thinking? Suggestions?

Thanks

oh..and I get a chuckle every time I see you want Glen Beck for President....that would be a tough pill for me to swallow...hahaha...

 

[The Chicken Lady]

Quote:
I agree with patandchickens. You'll thank yourself later when you're trying to catch a chicken and you don't have to crawl after it through the muck. Hee hee.

 

[Guitartists]

The dilema... if I make the whole thing 5 feet... I will have to shorten it to have enough cloth. I think for the time being I will just have to suffer it out so the chickens will have more running space....

Besides.... I have 4 kids..LMAO THEY can do the maintenance in the 3' areas! LOL

I might just make a flip up door on the top at the end also..... will allow for easier access to the chickens.

 

[patandchickens]

Guitartists, unless you are heavily infested with rat snakes you do not really need hardware cloth on the upper portions or top of a full-height run. You would be fine with 2x4" welded wire mesh, or if you are wanting to be all Biosecure and keep wild birds out, 1" welded wire mesh. Which happily are cheaper than hardware cloth anyhow... although if you are doing this on the scrounge plan, you would have to scrounge 'em up. (Might not be that hard, esp. for 2x4' mesh)

Doing that for the upper 2' and the roof of the run would leave you PLENTY of hardware cloth for other purposes. Like a bigger run in the future as you mention...

PAChickenchick, fwiw I used to know someone up here in Ontario (winter lows to -20F or lower) who had hens for years and years in a screen-fronted house like Elderoo is referring to. In the winter she put a couple layers of plastic over it. I do not think she used a heat lamp or anything, although I do not know for sure whether she made any other provisions for warmth, and she did have reasonably cold-hardy types of chickens. If it's doable here it should be doable in Penna.

Pat

 

[Guitartists]

I am not there to let them in and out everyday.... the run has to be as sercure as I can possibly make it so that they can come and go at will. Spaghetti was in a makeshift coop for weeks with no problem from varmits (As his dad has 4 dogs and 9 cats that are VERY territorial) but, I am taking every precaution to make it as tight as possible. The supplier I found can sell me a 150' roll.... so, that's what I am workin with

I'd be devistated if something squeezed through a larger opening somehow and killed my birds. I know no run is 100% secure.... but I am doing my best

 

[Davaroo]

Elderoo...THANKS for that...I read it and it was great!

Mr. Weeks does make a lot sense and he writes from years of developed knowledge. He made his mistakes, to be sure, but luckily, he's saved you the trouble of doing the same. All you gotta do is read and think, as he recommends.

Ofcourse when I read something it always pops a gazillion questions in my head...

This phenomenon has a name: information paralysis.

Sand...I get it...he sure said it enough So here's my question...you use sand on your floor and nothing else? Straw in the nests though?

Thats correct.

How often do you change your sand?

HE states twice a year is best with occasional top dressing replenishment. Also remember the chapter on pest control - the sand is part of the overall system.

Ok...next is the spray he's talking about completely went over my head...stove oil/crude oil/ and what ever the other one was...can I get my hands on them today or what would you suggest?

"Stove oil" is kerosene, crude oil would be plain old tar. Carbolic acid is known as phenol. Kerosene is easy to get, paving tar would do for the crude portion. Phenol I'm at a loss for, but it is fairly common as chemical's go.

And there again...spraying it on the sand...what if the chickens pecked and ate the sand...wouldn't that make them sick?

I guess not. I dunno, Ive not used any of that stuff, but there is precedent for it's homepathic use.
- Kerosene is till recommended for mites, depending on who you ask. Some folks I know rub it onto the birds legs to prevent scaly mites. I know of old-timers that even drink it "for what ails you."
- Tar? Ever heard of Creomulsion? It's an elixir of creosote - tar.
- Phenol has antiseptic properties, and was used by Sir Joseph Lister (1827-1912) in his pioneering technique of antiseptic surgery. It is also the active ingredient in some oral anesthetics such as Chloraseptic spray.
In pure form and excessive exposure, it has it's dangers. Dilute, as Mr. Weeks recommends I gather not.

"It is also used in the production of drugs (it is the starting material in the industrial production of aspirin), herbicides, and synthetic resins (Bakelite, one of the first synthetic resins to be manufactured, is a polymer of phenol with formaldehyde). Exposure of the skin to concentrated phenol solutions causes chemical burns which may be severe. Washing with large amounts of plain water (most labs have a safety shower or eye-wash) and removal of contaminated clothing are required.

Phenol is also used in the preparation of cosmetics including sunscreens, hair dyes, and skin lightening preparations. Compounds containing phenol moieties can be used to prevent ultraviolet light-induced damage to hair and skin due to the UV-absorbing properties of the aromatic ring of the phenol. These compounds also act as free radical scavengers and can be used to prevent premature aging and cancer caused by oxidative stress.

It is also used in cosmetic surgery as an exfoliant, to remove layers of dead skin. It is also used in phenolization, a surgical procedure used to treat an ingrown nail, in which it is applied to the toe to prevent regrowth of nails. 5% Phenol is sometimes injected near a sensory nerve in order to temporarily (up to a year) stop it transmitting impulses in some intractable cases of chronic neuropathic pain."

It would seem that these things, when taken together as Mr. Weeks suggests, do the job. He proved that before we came along. The choice to use them is yours. A search of more readily accessible components might bear fruit.
Again, I havent proven ALL of Mr Weeks methods. But I've used enough of them to know he is on the right track.

Feed...got the green..and actually that's music to my ears...what else do you do for food...like can you give me specifics on grains and YOU get them..cause I think depending on the type it might be best for me to grind them as I need them...assuming that's something I can actually do.....

I would recommend keeping the feed hopper full of a common poultry feed, obtained from a local mill whenver ppossible. I pay $7 a bag if I buy it in bulk, $9 at retail.
This will simplify your efforts greatly.

Remember when Charles wrote his book, commercial feed wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now. The industrialization of poultry farming works to your benefit in that regard. That is one of the problems of these old books - they are dated and you have to pick through and modify things for current availabilty.

As for the grains, a good mix of whatever is available locally would do, favoring wheat 2:1 over corn if available. Mr Weeks worked in bulk quantities, remember. He was all about ecnomy of scale and eliminating all the "fussiness" we so love.

And lastly...I didn't think I could have an open/missing wall. I get the advantage of air and dust control...but I have bone chilling winters.... 3 walls wouldn't be enough I'm thinking? Suggestions?

Lets let Pat explain it; as usual, she does a great job of it:

"I used to know someone up here in Ontario (winter lows to -20F or lower) who had hens for years and years in a screen-fronted house like Elderoo is referring to. In the winter she put a couple layers of plastic over it. I do not think she used a heat lamp or anything, although I do not know for sure whether she made any other provisions for warmth, and she did have reasonably cold-hardy types of chickens. If it's doable here it should be doable in Penna."

I'd suggest making frame panes of 2 x 2's, covered with plastic or my personal favorite - bubble wrap. That stuff wil insulate an Eskimo.
Hang these frames on hooks and secure them with simple toggle clamps so they can be removed easily. A small heat source may be needed, but probably not.

Chickens don't need swampy, sweltering heat in the winter. It's inefficient and costly. They just need to be kept from hard freezing temps and given grain high in energy, usually corn based. Mounting insulated panes and selecting a cold-hardy breed like Wyandottes would go a long way to eliminating this as a worry.

That is the goal throughout Mr Weeks book - eliminate the worries upfront by using your noggin and keeping things simple. Well that, AND, standing on the shoulders of great and benificent men like himself, to your own benefit.

oh..and I get a chuckle every time I see you want Glen Beck for President....that would be a tough pill for me to swallow...hahaha...

It used to say TED NUGENT FOR PREZ, but it seems he isn't interested in the job. Glen isn't either, but he IS both current and cut from the same mold.
My politics are best summed up by these two quotes from Winnie Churchill, perhaps the greatest pragmatist of the modern age:

"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head."

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

-- Winston Churchill​

 

[patandchickens]

It would seem that these things, when taken together as Mr. Weeks suggests, do the job. The choice to use them is yours.

I am unfortunately cursed with dialup at 24000 bps on a good day, so I don't generally download large files such as that book (the connection usually drops out halfway anyhow

), and thus I don't know exactly what mixture of what things Mr Weeks was recommending for what purpose.

But from what I can infer from the conversation here, I would like to say that you may want to be real careful. 1920's recipes for chicken housing or chickenfeed or whatever, no problemo. 1920's recipes for old-timey dust-preventers or disinfectants... I'd be REALLY REALLY careful. With a 10 foot pole.

A whole lot more is known about the toxicity of things then than was known in the '20s. Used motor oil used to be a common way of laying dust on roads, driveways, farm laneways, and riding rings. Turns out it causes a considerably elevated rate of various exciting cancers when used that way. Creosote used to be a really common wood preservative and germicide/pesticide. Turns out it is somewhat toxic if breathed or ingested and you DON'T want it getting into the groundwater. I can tell you from personal experience that phenol is nasty stuff, have had a bunch of it splashed on me from sloppy lab bench technique doing water-quality chemistry and it is No Good At All. Etcetera.

There are some things for which we really HAVE improved on the 1920's version. Not all things, maybe not even most things... but Chemicals That Kill Germs And Pests (in fact, use of chemical compounds in general) would be a pretty good example of a thing where we often know much more about it now.

JMO,

Pat​

 

[Davaroo]

I would wholeheartedly agree with Pat.

Much of the old wisom is as sound as ever. If you ask me, in many, many ways, it is better than the newer things we take for granted. That is why I present it

But one has to pick through the old information and weigh it against what is new and modern. There have been advances since the 1920's.

The pest control methods that worked then could work now, for sure. Are they the wise choice?

In a pinch, perhaps. Lets just say it can't hurt to know them. It doesn't mean, though, that I intend to mix up a batch.

 

[PAChickenChick]

Pat & Elder....

Thanks so much for the help!!!

And Guitarists...thanks for starting the thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What I think I'll do is make one of my four coop walls ALMOST completely welded wire and put some bubble wrap

on a frame to hang in front of it for the winter and see how that works. I can always cover it totally later if I have to.

I think I'm sold on the sand for the flooring...there again, I figure I can start with it...and if it isn't working for me I can change it...but sand does seem to sound reasonable and I know it's a cat's number one choice...so it must work

And AGAIN....I'm thinking while Mr. Weeks was one smart cookie...I might forgo the kerosene mix sprayed on the walls and sand...hahaha.

Did I mention that I LOVE the smart folks on this here forum????
Well by all means let me put it out there again....
Thanky all ya smarties