Please help, sick NH Red Rooster chick

[blucoondawg]

My chicks are 5-6 weeks old now, for the last few days we have a New Hampshire red who is acting very odd, he has his head tucked down underneath himself and walks around backwards, it is very strange. He seems to eat and drink and occasionally fly around the brooder area but other wise acts odd. He looks like a headless chicken walking around backwards. Does anyone know what could be the cause of this? All chicks looked and acted healthy until this started, none of the 29 others seem to be effected.

 

[blucoondawg]

From what I can read online it seems likely my chick has wry neck, he holds his head down near his legs and walks backward but can turn his head enough to eat and drink which is probably the only reason he is still in decent shape. We separated him from the others so he can relax and not be bumped around by them and gave him some vitamin E and poly vi sol as I have read, we shall see if that does any good.

 

[Haunted55]

Follow the wry neck treatment and you should be fine. If he doesn't perk up in a couple of days, write back here. Just curious, what are you feeding?

 

[blucoondawg]

I started out feeding non medicated Nutrena chick starter because my chicks were vaccinated from the hatchery, then were running low and had to make a trip out of town for the day and were going by a different feed dealer and picked up what they had which was Prince poultry feed, which I was not pleased with as I have seen Prince brand dog food around before and consider it garbage, but being the situation was what it was and I wouldn't get to my normal feed store I gave it a try. I told the guy at the feed mill that I needed a bag of feed for baby chicks at the time 3-4 weeks old. I don't think the food he sold me was even chick feed it just says poultry feed on the bag. Low and behold a week or so after starting on that garbage food I have this issue with my rooster. I picked up a bag of Nutrena again today, I will feed that other garbage to them when they are older and able to free range some along with it.

 

[blucoondawg]

I just read a few quick threads on here about wry neck, is there anything I can do besides the vitamin E and the poly vi sol? I saw mention of prednisone but I don't have access to anything like that at this time. I also added electrolytes to the waterer again and another waterer with some ACV

 

[Haunted55]

I started out feeding non medicated Nutrena chick starter because my chicks were vaccinated from the hatchery, then were running low and had to make a trip out of town for the day and were going by a different feed dealer and picked up what they had which was Prince poultry feed, which I was not pleased with as I have seen Prince brand dog food around before and consider it garbage, but being the situation was what it was and I wouldn't get to my normal feed store I gave it a try. I told the guy at the feed mill that I needed a bag of feed for baby chicks at the time 3-4 weeks old. I don't think the food he sold me was even chick feed it just says poultry feed on the bag. Low and behold a week or so after starting on that garbage food I have this issue with my rooster. I picked up a bag of Nutrena again today, I will feed that other garbage to them when they are older and able to free range some along with it.

I just read a few quick threads on here about wry neck, is there anything I can do besides the vitamin E and the poly vi sol? I saw mention of prednisone but I don't have access to anything like that at this time. I also added electrolytes to the waterer again and another waterer with some ACV

Your birds were vaccinated for cocci? If they were, scratch what I said about the Corid. You will instead need to treat them with Di-Methox if this is cocci. What does their poop look like? Personally, I would stop the ACV, in my opinion, it doesn't do all people claim it does and can make some situations a lot worse. The vitamin E and the poly vi sol are good. Keep up with the dosing and think about adding a probiotic to the water as well as the electrolite mix. Do not add any other vitamins at this time. The good feed already has them in there and there are some, like vitamin E that can be overdosed. For the short time you should need this, it should be just fine. If you can, at least 1 hour of sunshine a day. Vitamin D is often overlooked as something that make all of the other nutrients work properly.

As for the feed? I'd can it and be done. If it caused problems that quickly......nah, I wouldn't bother trying to keep it fresh for later. Chalk it up to a bad experience that you learned from.

 

[blucoondawg]

Your birds were vaccinated for cocci? If they were, scratch what I said about the Corid. You will instead need to treat them with Di-Methox if this is cocci. What does their poop look like? Personally, I would stop the ACV, in my opinion, it doesn't do all people claim it does and can make some situations a lot worse. The vitamin E and the poly vi sol are good. Keep up with the dosing and think about adding a probiotic to the water as well as the electrolite mix. Do not add any other vitamins at this time. The good feed already has them in there and there are some, like vitamin E that can be overdosed. For the short time you should need this, it should be just fine. If you can, at least 1 hour of sunshine a day. Vitamin D is often overlooked as something that make all of the other nutrients work properly.

As for the feed? I'd can it and be done. If it caused problems that quickly......nah, I wouldn't bother trying to keep it fresh for later. Chalk it up to a bad experience that you learned from.

Yes they were vaccinated for cocci and mareks, I don't believe you said anything in your earlier post about Corid or cocci. The poop looks like normal poop and this one with the crooked neck is the only one of 30 showing signs of illness. I assumed the ACV, from all I have read, is added to act as a probiotic and ad beneficial bacteria to their digestive tract?

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: For it to work it needs to be unpasteurized, since once you cook it the best bits are dead. Heat treatment to kill bad bacteria also kills good bacteria. Organic is usually best but I am suspicious of what they're using on some crops instead of normal pesticides etc, as I know on some crops they use something my animals don't like... Overall ACV is quite beneficial though. I don't give it as a staple though a lot of people do, I don't because it's pretty expensive here.

From the symptoms you're describing it doesn't sound like wry neck to me, as that's usually characterized by sideways twisting (that may also go under the body), and usually involves lameness, not running around backwards. I have once heard from a quail breeder of an almost identical thing; this person, like some other poultry breeders I've met, is unfortunately of the opinion that inbreeding 'doesn't matter' with birds, only mammals. (Like the majority of those with bizarrely ignorant opinions on birds, they seem to have gotten this garbled info from misunderstood and junk science documentaries that confuse and misinform more than they teach, unfortunately). So anyway, they have bought an initial batch of birds, usually brothers and sisters, and just kept breeding and breeding for however long it takes for the birds to stop hatching altogether.

Anyway this quail breeder had birds who would run around normally, eat and act normal, then suddenly their heads would go under their bellies and they would run backwards. When it stopped, they went back to acting normally. These quail breeders kept breeding from these stock as they figured it didn't matter. I have heard of this happening due to inbreeding in turkeys/chooks/quail but not happening due to diet, but that's not to rule it out. If it is due to diet and not defective genes causing spasms, then correct diet will hopefully fix it. (I obviously can't guarantee it as I've never had that problem so have never treated it).

I would view this as a positive, since anything you use to cure the bird of the spasm will likely work for other problems involving spasms, including on yourself or other animals (if it's a natural cure, that is). If you're trying natural methods it may help to try the natural chook keeping thread. I'm not dismissing all science or documentaries, either, just those that are made by uneducated profit-oriented people who think it's OK to make new documentaries repeating 'facts' that have been discarded by science since I was a small child. Even as a child I could pick a lot of the untrue 'facts' being repeated in these rehashed money grubbing (often taxpayer funded) docos. Researchers for these docos relied on their childhood animal books, not the new info available.

Best wishes with whatever you choose and please keep us updated.

 

[Haunted55]

Yes they were vaccinated for cocci and mareks, I don't believe you said anything in your earlier post about Corid or cocci. The poop looks like normal poop and this one with the crooked neck is the only one of 30 showing signs of illness. I assumed the ACV, from all I have read, is added to act as a probiotic and ad beneficial bacteria to their digestive tract?

Sorry about that, trying to answer different threads. If everything else looks normal then I'd say you've hit it right and the vitamins should work. ACV doesn't have any benefits beyond the crop, where it's acid is neutrilized. I always tell people to find out the PH of their water before giving it to them. If your PH is normally around a 7.0, then it shouldn't hurt but if your wate is 6.0 or below...now you are asking for problems. Right now I will leave it to you to do the investigating on the subject. There's a lot of good science against it but I know as well that for certain things, ACV can be a big help for short periods of time.

I would continue with the vitamins, but as Chooks4Life points out, this could be more. If after 3-4 days your bird isn't showing marked improvement, You could start adding a Super B Complex to it's water. Just get the human pills and break/cut one into 4 pieces and add 1 piece to 1 qt. of water. If you're using gallon waters, just crush up the pill and mix it in. This has vitamins C abd the Bs. All water soluble so no worry about overdosing. While giving this please stop and ACV. Continuing to give this with the C in the pill will overload the system and could make it's system more alkaline than you want. Vitamin C works to acidify the 'whole' digestive track, not just the crop and is added by large poultry growers to keep their water clean and also to acidify the birds systems to stave off illness. The B Complex could help if this is something caused by inbreeding or genetics. Sometimes it's an inability to absorbe the needed vitamins readily, so most will just pass through rather than used. You up the amount available and it's chances increase to get what it needs.

 

[blucoondawg]

For it to work it needs to be unpasteurized, since once you cook it the best bits are dead. Heat treatment to kill bad bacteria also kills good bacteria. Organic is usually best but I am suspicious of what they're using on some crops instead of normal pesticides etc, as I know on some crops they use something my animals don't like... Overall ACV is quite beneficial though. I don't give it as a staple though a lot of people do, I don't because it's pretty expensive here.

From the symptoms you're describing it doesn't sound like wry neck to me, as that's usually characterized by sideways twisting (that may also go under the body), and usually involves lameness, not running around backwards. I have once heard from a quail breeder of an almost identical thing; this person, like some other poultry breeders I've met, is unfortunately of the opinion that inbreeding 'doesn't matter' with birds, only mammals. (Like the majority of those with bizarrely ignorant opinions on birds, they seem to have gotten this garbled info from misunderstood and junk science documentaries that confuse and misinform more than they teach, unfortunately). So anyway, they have bought an initial batch of birds, usually brothers and sisters, and just kept breeding and breeding for however long it takes for the birds to stop hatching altogether.

Anyway this quail breeder had birds who would run around normally, eat and act normal, then suddenly their heads would go under their bellies and they would run backwards. When it stopped, they went back to acting normally. These quail breeders kept breeding from these stock as they figured it didn't matter. I have heard of this happening due to inbreeding in turkeys/chooks/quail but not happening due to diet, but that's not to rule it out. If it is due to diet and not defective genes causing spasms, then correct diet will hopefully fix it. (I obviously can't guarantee it as I've never had that problem so have never treated it).

I would view this as a positive, since anything you use to cure the bird of the spasm will likely work for other problems involving spasms, including on yourself or other animals (if it's a natural cure, that is). If you're trying natural methods it may help to try the natural chook keeping thread. I'm not dismissing all science or documentaries, either, just those that are made by uneducated profit-oriented people who think it's OK to make new documentaries repeating 'facts' that have been discarded by science since I was a small child. Even as a child I could pick a lot of the untrue 'facts' being repeated in these rehashed money grubbing (often taxpayer funded) docos. Researchers for these docos relied on their childhood animal books, not the new info available.

Best wishes with whatever you choose and please keep us updated.

his neck is twisted to the side and down, I have read that in the most severe cases of wry neck the bird will twist its head all the way under between its legs. It doesn't "run around" backwards" really, when it walks it goes backward if its head is underneath, if it is able to hold its head up for awhile it walks forward. Of course I am not using pasteurized ACV