Polish breeding question

Chickpolish4life

In the Brooder
Feb 2, 2021
9
36
36
I have a Tolbunt Frizzle Polish rooster

I also was Wc, Gold, Silver, and Buff lace hens. What is the best color hens to breed with him? Trying to get more white in F1 then will breed back.

What hens should he not breed with? Does anyone know what color chicks he may produce for any of these hens?
 

NatJ

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Mar 20, 2017
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I have a Tolbunt Frizzle Polish rooster

I also was Wc, Gold, Silver, and Buff lace hens. What is the best color hens to breed with him? Trying to get more white in F1 then will breed back.

What hens should he not breed with? Does anyone know what color chicks he may produce for any of these hens?

I think Tolbunt is (genetically) a gold laced bird, with the mottling gene.

--The obvious cross is with the gold laced hen (offspring should all look gold laced), then cross back to the Tolbunt to get 50% Tolbunt chicks and 50% still looking gold laced. But that will probably not get more white in your line, because of course gold laced have been selected to NOT show any extra bits of white.

--If you cross the Tolbunt to the silver laced hen, you should get gold laced daughters (shade of gold may be odd, because of the modifiers from the silver). The sons should also be laced, and have both the silver gene and the gold gene, so they will probably look like messy or ugly silver laced (yellowish, maybe some gold or red in places.)

If you cross those daughters of the silver laced hen back to the Tolbunt rooster, all of the offspring should be pure for gold and for lacing, and half will have mottling (Tolbunt). I don't know whether the modifiers from the silver hen will affect how much white appears on the mottled chicks.

--If you cross the Tolbunt to the buff laced hen, all the chicks will be pure for gold, but the chicks will have white lacing (Dominant White, which turns black into white.) When you cross those chicks back to the Tolbunt, you will get four basic colors of chicks, in about equal numbers: some black laced gold chicks, some white laced gold chicks, some Tolbunt chicks, and some chicks that are like Tolbunt except for all the black being turned to white. Those last ones will certainly have more white, but without the black they aren't what you want. For the Tolbunt ones, I don't know whether they'll have a different amount of white than the original Tolbunt has, because I don't know what kind of modifiers are in the buff Polish.

--If you use a White Crested Black, you will get lots of black chicks in the first generation. When you cross back, you will still get lots of black chicks (with and without white mottling), and some chicks will probably have lacing, and some have the Tolbunt pattern. But I think you'll get some chicks that don't have the lacing, and you might have some that are silver-based instead of gold based. So you'll have a lot smaller percent with the right pattern. I have no idea whether this would bring in more of the modifiers that extend white on a mottled bird.

--If more white is what you want, just breeding Tolbunt to Tolbunt and selecting for more white might be your best bet. Or just keep your Tolbunt birds for another year or two. Mottled chickens are known for getting more white with each additional molt.

If you have enough space to raise quite a few chicks, you could cross the rooster to ALL of the hens, and keep a daughter from each hen. The only daughters you could easily mix up would be from the gold laced and from the silver laced. The other two would be easy to identify. Then you could cross all the daughters back to the rooster, raise the chicks separately, and see which group gives the best results. After you know which ones are best, of course you would breed more from the daughter that produced them.
 

Chickpolish4life

In the Brooder
Feb 2, 2021
9
36
36
I think Tolbunt is (genetically) a gold laced bird, with the mottling gene.

--The obvious cross is with the gold laced hen (offspring should all look gold laced), then cross back to the Tolbunt to get 50% Tolbunt chicks and 50% still looking gold laced. But that will probably not get more white in your line, because of course gold laced have been selected to NOT show any extra bits of white.

--If you cross the Tolbunt to the silver laced hen, you should get gold laced daughters (shade of gold may be odd, because of the modifiers from the silver). The sons should also be laced, and have both the silver gene and the gold gene, so they will probably look like messy or ugly silver laced (yellowish, maybe some gold or red in places.)

If you cross those daughters of the silver laced hen back to the Tolbunt rooster, all of the offspring should be pure for gold and for lacing, and half will have mottling (Tolbunt). I don't know whether the modifiers from the silver hen will affect how much white appears on the mottled chicks.

--If you cross the Tolbunt to the buff laced hen, all the chicks will be pure for gold, but the chicks will have white lacing (Dominant White, which turns black into white.) When you cross those chicks back to the Tolbunt, you will get four basic colors of chicks, in about equal numbers: some black laced gold chicks, some white laced gold chicks, some Tolbunt chicks, and some chicks that are like Tolbunt except for all the black being turned to white. Those last ones will certainly have more white, but without the black they aren't what you want. For the Tolbunt ones, I don't know whether they'll have a different amount of white than the original Tolbunt has, because I don't know what kind of modifiers are in the buff Polish.

--If you use a White Crested Black, you will get lots of black chicks in the first generation. When you cross back, you will still get lots of black chicks (with and without white mottling), and some chicks will probably have lacing, and some have the Tolbunt pattern. But I think you'll get some chicks that don't have the lacing, and you might have some that are silver-based instead of gold based. So you'll have a lot smaller percent with the right pattern. I have no idea whether this would bring in more of the modifiers that extend white on a mottled bird.

--If more white is what you want, just breeding Tolbunt to Tolbunt and selecting for more white might be your best bet. Or just keep your Tolbunt birds for another year or two. Mottled chickens are known for getting more white with each additional molt.

If you have enough space to raise quite a few chicks, you could cross the rooster to ALL of the hens, and keep a daughter from each hen. The only daughters you could easily mix up would be from the gold laced and from the silver laced. The other two would be easy to identify. Then you could cross all the daughters back to the rooster, raise the chicks separately, and see which group gives the best results. After you know which ones are best, of course you would breed more from the daughter that produced them.
Thank you so much for simplifying this for me. The silver and wc will not be included in the breeding. I may breed the buff and see the F1 chick decide from there. I am trying to find Tolbunt hens, with no luck. Ordering eggs.
I will need to see how he looks after a few molts. Thank you very much.
 

ColtHandorf

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Feb 19, 2019
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I have a Tolbunt Frizzle Polish rooster
@ColtHandorf might have an idea, he raises Orpingtons and has some laced ones I think
I am garbage with "fad", non-accepted color varieties. I'm such a grumpy elitist. I have a friend that sent me pics of his five Tolbunt Polish and I couldn't say anything nice about them. Not one of them were consistent in color or pattern.

I'm glad to see @NatJ and @Amer have popped in. I believe @Overo Mare and @The Moonshiner were discussing Tolbunt in another breed. And @nicalandia is a genetic whiz.
 

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