*POLL* Should a strain of chickens carry the breeder's name?

*POLL* Should a strain of chickens carry it's breeder's name?

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Erba said:
'If you bred it youself and it is unique to all others, I think you can make a name for your strain. I wouldn't use your own name though...something abstact. You can't really do it, with anything but Game birds though. With standard birds like Rhode Island Red, It is what is, but you could call them RIR from so and so farm. Or Jolly's RIR...
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The problem with is once the birds leave your hands the breeding is up to the new owner. Any birds produced may carry your genetics but your expertise is no longer a factor. Does the new breeder know how to select the proper breeders, does he cull correctly, does he even understand the SOP for the breed, etc.?
 
Feathercrazie said:
The problem with is once the birds leave your hands the breeding is up to the new owner. Any birds produced may carry your genetics but your expertise is no longer a factor. Does the new breeder know how to select the proper breeders, does he cull correctly, does he even understand the SOP for the breed, etc.?
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I've seen perfectly good strains ruined in just a few generations by breeders that don't understand proper breeding techniques. Most people buy a trio, or maybe even two. Then inbreed until the the birds are not even recognizable. Then claim they are so-and so's strain. To keep the birds top notch you must first understand the SOP and how your particular birds compare to it. Also you have to know what genes are unseen but carried by the birds. There is so much more to breeding SOP birds that just buying show birds and mating them. Often the best show type birds will not produce show type birds.
 
If its a new breed then the breeder should be able to name it what they like. But if its just a strain of a breed then at what point does it become the breeders who bought the birds strain? The birds bred by the breeder should be known as theirs, but once somebody buys them and breeds them the offspring should be theirs, because they are now putting in all the effort. Or have a miss understood something?
 
SpotTheCat said:
But if its just a strain of a breed then at what point does it become the breeders who bought the birds strain? The birds bred by the breeder should be known as theirs, but once somebody buys them and breeds them the offspring should be theirs, because they are now putting in all the effort. Or have a miss understood something?
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To expand on this...

Most of what a breed is, starts with a solid foundation. So, whoever is responsible for laying that foundation so to speak, would be the one putting in 90% of the effort. Not the guy that buys birds from him that are already great. That first person deserves to have their name attached IMO. All the second person is doing is continuing the line. Unless of course they create something new. Then they get that right as well.

Take MF Leghorns for example. I think the odds of @The Moonshiner getting one out of his current combos are like 1 in almost 2,000. Say he hatches 2,000 chicks a year for that one MF chick. So one chick a year here. Over time he creates a small flock of MFs, selling off all those other birds made in the process. Then comes time to breed those MFs once they all grow out. Then the culling and crossing back and forth to improve conformation starts. Perfecting them slowly to get them as close to SOP as possible. At this point, this is likely 10+ years of selective breeding and heavy culling. At last he finally has a stable flock of MFs to sell a few every year. He is the one that deserves to attach his name. Not the guy that buys a trio and then breeds them together and gets instant MFs. Sure, that second guy will have to cull. It's not as simple as printing perfect chicks. However, he's not going to have to do even a fraction of the effort that Moony put in.

Does that make sense? Jeez that was a novel. Sorry guys!
 
Overo Mare said:
To expand on this...

Most of what a breed is, starts with a solid foundation. So, whoever is responsible for laying that foundation so to speak, would be the one putting in 90% of the effort. Not the guy that buys birds from him that are already great. That first person deserves to have their name attached IMO. All the second person is doing is continuing the line. Unless of course they create something new. Then they get that right as well.

Take MF Leghorns for example. I think the odds of @The Moonshiner getting one out of his current combos are like 1 in almost 2,000. Say he hatches 2,000 chicks a year for that one MF chick. So one chick a year here. Over time he creates a small flock of MFs, selling off all those other birds made in the process. Then comes time to breed those MFs once they all grow out. Then the culling and crossing back and forth to improve conformation starts. Perfecting them slowly to get them as close to SOP as possible. At this point, this is likely 10+ years of selective breeding and heavy culling. At last he finally has a stable flock of MFs to sell a few every year. He is the one that deserves to attach his name. Not the guy that buys a trio and then breeds them together and gets instant MFs. Sure, that second guy will have to cull. It's not as simple as printing perfect chicks. However, he's not going to have to do even a fraction of the effort that Moony put in.

Does that make sense? Jeez that was a novel. Sorry guys!
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So you mean credit for creating the MF colour should go to him? That I agree with, but some credit should still go to the person continuing the line, because that still takes work and effort, also you have to get birds to start your line from someone
 
If you add something to the line, you get to add your name. If you're just continuing someone else's line, no.

If you took that line of MFs to a whole new level as far as pattern and conformation quality, over a period of time and they breed true etc.. Then I feel like that justifies adding your own name too.
 
I guess to me it comes down to respect. No small business appreciates having their products rebranded and sold as someone else's. Unless that someone else acknowledges their work and then puts in a considerable about of effort themselves to better or change the product. Then they get the same respect back and a rebrand isn't frowned upon. At that point two names would be attached to those birds. It would be one great line that goes by a new name, but was made by the first name that everyone respects. Therefore creating a larger base for the new name to continue the line. Does that make any sense? It does in my head. 😅
 
Overo Mare said:
I guess to me it comes down to respect. No small business appreciates having their products rebranded and sold as someone else's. Unless that someone else acknowledges their work and then puts in a considerable about of effort themselves to better or change the product. Then they get the same respect back and a rebrand isn't frowned upon. At that point two names would be attached to those birds. It would be one great line that goes by a new name, but was made by the first name that everyone respects. Therefore creating a larger base for the new name to continue the line. Does that make any sense? It does in my head. 😅
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I still don’t get it, because everyone got there birds from someone else, if you are breeding to the SOP then you can’t add something new unless you are making a new colour. I most be missing something because wouldn’t that mean all credit then goes to the person who made the breed (except for any new colours) at the start? I don’t breed birds, I breed guinea pigs, so maybe its just a chicken thing I am missing?
 
I stopped my Orpington Project, & gonna be creating a new breed out of a couple throw back birds that were produced.

I'm mainly just gonna be enhancing traits I see, & add some new traits that aren't there just to create something unique.
 

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