*Poll* What color is this horse?

[Alagirl]

Well, the first bit of confusion is that this horse could possibly be one. In no universe does a gray retain a dark head while the rest of it lightens. In fact, one of the ways you know a newborn foal will be gray is because of the "spectacles" - white hairs around the eyes.
Foal pics (Rohan, Silver Rain, Gandalf), before;
View attachment 3245589View attachment 3245591View attachment 3245593
After; Same horses (Rohan, Silver Rain, Gandalf) 1-7 years later
View attachment 3245607
View attachment 3245599View attachment 3245600

Second point, Sunbleaching. On page 2, what the poster describes is not sunbleaching, but gray. Sunbleaching, obviously, has NO cumulative effect over the horses life. The sun must bleach each, individual hair as it grows, and starts all over again when it is shed. If you think your horse is sunbleached, throw a blanket over it for a month. The horse will get darker, because the new hairs won't be bleached. This will never, ever, make a horse turn gray or white, the effect is brown/yellowish. You can imitate sunbleaching with lemon juice, we all have - or were - the friend who tried it in HS.

Third, the appaloosa gene. You never want to breed an appy (or a paint) to a gray, because they will, in fact, TOTALLY gray out over time and lose their markings entirely. They'll go through a couple of years of looking pretty awful with it, too. The spots gray out at the same rate as the head, legs and rest of the horse. If an Appy loses more base color but their spots stay bright, that is a modifier of the LP gene and not graying. Gray Appys lose their spots.

Last, roan. Look at the gray pics again. As said above, NONE of them have darker heads, and no gray ever will. They may, like the dapple pony mare, have lighter heads, but never darker. A dark head tells you that this is absolutely, unequivocally, a roan. A roan may have darker "fleabites" or birdcatcher spots that might make you think appy, but it doesn't mean that it is, such variations are common to the roan coloring. What does tell you the horse in question has some Appaloosa in him is the white sclera and mottled skin. The only issue with roans is the base color, since roan can throw white over anything, and it can already be hard to tell, just from the head, whether a horse is a sunbleached black, a seal brown or a dark bay. One or two sheds will clear it up, as roans get darker half the year and lighter the other half. Most roans have lighter fluffy winter coats and darker summer ones, but I've seen the opposite as well. This seasonal change can be extreme, but no matter how extreme, it does not indicate graying, unless the head is fading out as well, which will be seen in the first year.

quite educational.
As it is, the horse in question is a youngster and the proud new owner wasn't quite sure what they are looking at.
The steed presents with a lot of different things, one of which could very well be a graying gene - on top of a roan, on top of Appy patterns.
Spotted horse color genes can be quite messy.

 

[RiverOtter]

quite educational.
As it is, the horse in question is a youngster and the proud new owner wasn't quite sure what they are looking at.
The steed presents with a lot of different things, one of which could very well be a graying gene - on top of a roan, on top of Appy patterns.
Spotted horse color genes can be quite messy.

That they can, which is why I study them. But no, there is no way this horse could also have a graying gene. The foals in those pics were all between 1 and 4 days old. You can tell at birth if a horse will gray, and certainly by the first shed. By 2, it is blatantly obvious to every breeder that looks at the horse.

Which I know, because I am one. I bred every horse in those pictures, and, as my stallion was gray, half of his foals were as well. I also work with cream and spotting genes, and have bred Appys in the past. My breeding partner gets all the champagnes, silvers and duns. Between us, we have the color thing covered very thoroughly.

I'd link you to our websites, but I don't think that's allowed.

 

[OneHappyDuckie]

That they can, which is why I study them. But no, there is no way this horse could also have a graying gene. The foals in those pics were all between 1 and 4 days old. You can tell at birth is a horse will gray, and certainly by the first shed. By 2, it is blatantly obvious to every breeder that looks at the horse.

Which I know, because I am one. I bred every horse in those pictures, and, as my stallion was gray, half of his foals were as well. I also work with cream and spotting genes, and have bred Appys in the past. My breeding partner gets all the champagnes, silvers and duns. Between us, we have the color thing covered very thoroughly.

I'd link you to our websites, but I don't think that's allowed.

Just curious- do you think he’s blue or bay roan?

 

[RiverOtter]

Just curious- do you think he’s blue or bay roan?

My guess - and it is a guess - is that his base color is dark bay. The reason I say that is this picture

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Looking at his ears and forelock, we can see that he has brown under the forelock and around base of his pretty, black-lined ears. The brownish tones on the rest of him could be explained by diet and sunbleaching, but right around there tends to stay pretty true to the natural color.

But again, it is a guess, because the darkest bay looks a lot like seal brown which looks a lot like light black (which I know is a funny thing to say, but some blacks have a lot more red tones then they have a right to and don't even get me started on what pangere does to them) to the point that I and a lot of other breeders I know have broken down and tested just to be sure.

But what IS certain is that he is a handsome fella who landed in a good place and I'm sure he'll be happy with you. A good horse is a good color

 

[Painted Calls]

This is sun bleaching. Pretty sure that's what was meant by sun bleaching. Unless I missed something.

 

[Alagirl]

My guess - and it is a guess - is that his base color is dark bay. The reason I say that is this picture

Looking at his ears and forelock, we can see that he has brown under the forelock and around base of his pretty, black-lined ears. The brownish tones on the rest of him could be explained by diet and sunbleaching, but right around there tends to stay pretty true to the natural color.

But again, it is a guess, because the darkest bay looks a lot like seal brown which looks a lot like light black (which I know is a funny thing to say, but some blacks have a lot more red tones then they have a right to and don't even get me started on what pangere does to them) to the point that I and a lot of other breeders I know have broken down and tested just to be sure.

But what IS certain is that he is a handsome fella who landed in a good place and I'm sure he'll be happy with you. A good horse is a good color

Yep, my Grandpa's sentiments: A good horse always has the right color.

 

[OneHappyDuckie]

This is sun bleaching. Pretty sure that's what was meant by sun bleaching. Unless I missed something.
View attachment 3245698

I thought by sunbleaching we were talking about the redish/yellowish spots, not the white. Pretty horsie!

 

[Painted Calls]

I thought by sunbleaching we were talking about the redish/yellowish spots, not the white. Pretty horsie!

Me too.

Thank you! He's a turd.

 

[OneHappyDuckie]

Me too.

Thank you! He's a turd.

Do you have a picture of how he looks when he isn’t sunbleached?

 

[Painted Calls]

Do you have a picture of how he looks when he isn’t sunbleached?

This is the only one I've got. He's a bit bleached here as well. He's retired at 22 years old, so he stays out 24/7.

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