"poor hatchery quality"?

[rizq]

Show quality CAN happen from a hatchery, it is just not the norm. It is entirely possible that your chickens would do just fine at a show. It is also possible that there are some minute differences that you are not seeing that may be considered major at a show. Other than my seramas, I would not even be able to tell you if any of my purebred birds were show standard because I am really not familiar with their standards. I know my SS Hamburgs look pretty correct, except that my roos comb looks a bit small since he lost part of it before we got him, but I would not be able to say they are show quality because I just do not know enough about their standard. To me, they also look just like other SSH I see. Either way, I do not care, they are beautiful, lay VERY well, and I love them

 

[speckledhen]

Great quality certainly can come from hatchery stock, but you have to know what to look for in the breed to know what you have. I have had six Wyandottes, five SLWs and one GLW. The GLW has come closest to what I believe is the ideal. Her comb is lovely and her lacing is even and beautiful, even across the chest area where it usually is odd or fades out on alot of hatchery stock. The SLWs varied from average to just so-so lacing. All were from Ideal.

 

[Goose and Fig]

Well really- does "poor hatchery quality" mean "not show quality"?

I mean- I am about as likely to invest in silkies and polish as I am going to get a poodle with a funny haircut. Not! I want to raise quality, hearty, friendly farm/companion birds that fit the breed standard as well . I have no intent to show. So the question is-

Should I only use the stock from breeders? Or can I mix my stock?

Wouldn't it help to start with different family lines so I don't end up with inbreeding faults in a few years?

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Here is a good post from windchyme showing Hatchery silkies and Show Silkies just scroll down to whindchyme's post..
Just there pure breed doesn't make them show quality...

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=204156&p=3

Chris

they all are pretty but the pure breeds are fluffier im talking about my barred rocks and i see pictures on here and mine look exactly the same they look perfect and those win first place second third what ever i just dont see why a regular chicken cant win when they look the same ive always wanted to put mine in shows and try and win the ribbons but everyone tells me that the hatchery birds arnt show quality oh well i think my babies are beautiful and i dont need some judge saying they arnt. thank you for showing me the difference chris09

It all comes down to the Standard of that breed. How close is your bird to the Standard..

Ok her is the Diqualifications for the Barred Plymouth Rock...

Red or yelloy in any part of plumage; two or more solid black primaries, or secondaries, or main tail feathers; shasnks other than yellow or dusty yellow.

There is a lot more in the standard on barred rocks that you have to go by.. But this ia as start..
Here is a link to some real good Barred Rocks... Nice tight clean barring on the roosters...

http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/2958039

Chris

 

[chickenbottom]

if that was it my barred rocks would be perfect they have no yellow no red their feathers are all barred every single one of them thats very helpful chris09 thanks and thats the picture mine looks exactly like that
just a bit more fluffier

 

[Dirt Road]

This seems constantly to be one of the more contentious subjects in poultry keeping. So I'll throw in my two cents worth. I've bought birds from hatcheries, lots of them over the years. I've also gotten more than a few hatching eggs from "breeders". I generally will not buy started or adult birds, for disease/parasite reasons. Just my own policy. The absolute worst birds I've ever wound up with, were from eggs hatched out of "show quality" stock, per the breeder who sold them to me. The best quality I've gotten also came from a breeder. The quality of birds I've gotten from hatcheries, on AVERAGE has been slightly better than those from breeders. Probably because many self proclaimed breeders are in fact nothing more than merchants. Some breeds from a given hatchery have been well above average quality, while another breed from the same hatchery were barely representative of the breed. Within the APA Standard, a breed will normally be represented as having certain economic qualities. However, it is a very rare individual who will cull a hen for poor production, if she does well on the bench. Can't say that I've ever heard of a hatchery which "ran down" or had any ill to say about a breeder, whereas far too many self proclaimed "breeders" will rant endlessly against hatchery birds. I'm always at a loss to explain why anyone feels the best way to promote their own product is to denigrate or otherwise demean someone else's product. I have noted that the truly successful breeders with the best reputations, almost invariably do not spend their time condemning any one else's stock.

Jim

 

[Katy]

There is nothing wrong with hatchery stock. That's what I had for many, many years. Good layers and for the most part nice hens. I now have almost 100% stock from breeders. I don't think you can realize the difference in the quality until you have had both. Take my SLWs for instance....the difference is like night and day! It's all a matter of what you want...if you just want some layers for eggs the hatchery stock will serve you well, but if you want birds that match the standard and really look like what they're supposed to get them from a breeder. No guarentees there either that the birds you hatch will be show quality, but the odds are much, much greater that they will be. It costs the same to feed a good quality bird as it does a poor one.

 

[rancher hicks]

I didn't read all the posts, I don''t have time. However many of the so called good breeders don't even return your e-mails. I don't believe they're interested in preservation. Whether show quality or not a breed is a breed. The APA standard was decided after the breed was developed. Many of the heritage breeds are "composite breeds".
The reason I say they are not interested in preservation is because I recently e-mailed a breeder who charges $150 for 6 chicks. They are in Florida. I suggested flying down to pick up chicks. Believe it or not there are some who can afford to do so. I didn't want to trust the USPS with chicks at this price unless the breeder was going to guarantee live birds.
Well I never got a reply.
Many of the heritage breeds were found in back yard flocks.
It really is about the $$$$, not preservation.
As for the hatcheries. Where can I find information about Delawares being crossed with Columbians? Because wouldn't this be false advertising?

 

[speckledhen]

Some hatcheries even listed the birds as "Delaware/Columbian Rock" in their brochures. I can't recall which ones, but I saw it with my own eyes. seriousbill can tell you more about it than I can. One of our members showed me a picture of his Delaware rooster...with many solid black feathers rather than barred ones in the tail, an indicator of that outcrossing. I would say that most would not admit to it, but the proof is in the birds.

Found this older breeder/hatchery listing page and that is the way Welp has their birds listed, however, this year, on the actual Welp site, that isn't listed "Columbian Rock/Delaware" any longer, which tells me that they did the outcrossing, but no longer admit to it.

Welp, Inc.
PO Box 77
Bancroft, IA 50517
Phone: (800) 458-4473
Fax: (515) 885-2346

http://www.welphatchery.com/ Chickens - Bantams:
Clean-Legged:
.Ameraucana-Araucana, BB Red Old English, Black & Brown Belgium Quail, Black Japanese, Black Old English Game, Black Rose Comb, Black Tailed Buff Japanese, Black Tailed White Japanese, Croele Old English, Dark Cornish, Golden Sebright, Gray Japanee, Red Pyle Old English, Rhode Island Red, Silver Duckwing Old English, Silver Sebright, Spangled Old English, White Cornish, White Crested Black Polish, White Faced Black Spanish, White Japanese, White Laced Red Cornish.
Feather-Legged:
Barred Cochin, Birchen Cochin, Black Cochin, Black Silkie, Blue Cochin, Blue Silkie, Buff Brahma, Buff Cochin, Buff Silkie, Dark Brahma, Golden Laced Cochin, Light Brahma, Mottled Cochin, Mille Fleur, Partrdge Cochin, Porcelain, Red Cochin, Red Frizzle, Cochin, Red Silkie, Sultan, White Cochin, White Frizzle Cochin, White Silkie.

Chickens - Standard:
Meat Type:
Cornish Rock
White Egg Layers:
California White & White Leghorn.
Brown Egg Layers:
Rhode Island Red, Barred Rock, Black Australorp, Red Sex-Link, Black Sex-Link, White Rock.
Cochin:
Black, Blue, Buff, Partridge, White.
Polish:
Buff Laced, Golden Laced, Silver Laced, White Crested Black.
Other:
Ancona, Ameraucana (Araucana), Black Giant, Black Sumatra, Blue Andalusian, Black Minorca, Buff Minorca, Brahma-Dark, Brahma-Light, Red Broiler, Black Broiler, Brown Leghorn, Buff Orpington, Buff Rock, Buttercup, California Gray, Golden Campine, Silver Campine, Columbian Rock/Delaware, Cornish Dark, Dominiques, Egyptian Fayomi, Golden Lakenvelder, Silver Lakenvelder, New Hampshire Red, Partridge Rock, Production Black, Salmon Favorelle, Silver Spangled Hamburg, Speckled Sussex, Turken, White Laced Red Cornish, Golden Laced Wyandotte, Silver Laced Wyandotte.​

 

[Chris09]

chickenbottom:

Well if your Barred Rocks are that good you should show them Let the judge look at them...

Chris