Possible breeding program

[LaurenRitz]

I thought of a fourth and fifth option. If I use a roo from the first hatch, I can get rid of all the younger birds as well as the new roo's mother and keep my breeding population the same size. The selection phase would move toward roos rather than pullets, but within 3 generations all the older hens would be gone anyway.

So again, it has advantages and disadvantages. I am leaning toward the least work possible, which means mob breeding.

In mob breeding I would let the birds do the selection and just cull those that fit my criteria the least. I would also let nature do some of the sorting.

 

[LaurenRitz]

My Mottled Java is broody! She's been on the "nest" since yesterday morning and she's growling at everyone.

I have put together a set of eggs for her, two from each of the ladies, but I'll wait until she's been on the nest for another few days before I give her the eggs. I put a water bowl out for her.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

I am starting a breeding project for a sustainable dual purpose breed that thrives on forage, goes broody and raises its own chicks, etc. In this area, it will need to be both cold and heat hardy and able to withstand some predator pressure.

The breeds I chose were Bielefelder (roo), Jersey Giant, Mottled Java, Black Australorp, and Rhode Island Red. Because of problems I ended up with a Bielefelder pullet, three Jersey Giants, one Mottled Java. The BA'S and RIR's are still babies.

Anyway, one of the JJ's ended up being a roo, and I got an adult Biel roo from another source. So I have enough for two population groups with the breeds I selected.

I want to keep the two groups separate, unrelated for the first few generations, but I'm concerned as to what to do with the Jersey Giants. Or Javas, Australorps or Orpingtons for that matter.

If I leave the Jersey Giant pullets with the Bielefelder roo, the population will be heavily weighted toward JJ in the selection phase (3rd gen) and I really don't want that.

1st possibility, get rid of the JJ roo and have the Bielefelder be the foundation. Stick with one group for now.

2nd, get rid of the JJ roo and get a roo from another breed for the breakout group. Dominique and Orpington have both been suggested.

3rd, create a third population and move selection back another generation.

All viable solutions, but they all have their problems as well.

Are there other options that I haven't thought of? Solutions or problems?

The current plan is
B x MJ and JJ
JJ x BA and RR

The next generation roo for the rotation to group 2 would have to be B x MJ to avoid the weighting toward JJ for one more generation.

What are you hoping to achieve in crosses that couldn't be achieved with selectively breeding either Biels or Giants to your needs?

These aren't particularly unheard of traits, though finding good stock rather than hatchery stock can be a challenge. Still not as difficult as stabilizing a line from a total mix-n- match of crosses, though.

Know what you're going for that can't be found elsewhere might offer some insight so better advice could be provided.

 

[LaurenRitz]

First, these are all inbred (i.e., stabilized) varieties. Since the first few generations they have been crossed inside a limited gene pool, with all that implies. One of the first things lost is the ability to adapt to change or new conditions.

I do landrace breeding with plants (goingtoseed.org) and the first step is to get as wide a gene pool as possible. Long before any selection is done, the offspring need to be able to adapt to the existing environment.

The old landraces weren't varieties as we think of them, but locally adapted populations with a broad genetic base.

Second, I do not care about uniformity or breeding to the SOP. I care that these birds can thrive in the sweltering heat and brutal cold, reproduce themselves with no interference from me, and basically thrive if they had no more human support.

I intend this to be a landrace breed, continuously adapting rather than stagnant. If other people in the area pick up pieces of the project I fully expect that they will adapt the population to their own needs.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Selectively linebreeding a single strain from any of those breeds would produce the results you're looking for, and could be considered a landrace. All of my purebreds are landraces after I adapt them to my micro climate and local soil and environmental pathogens and endemic parasites and diseases over the course of many generations. In the course of doing so, i select for or against other traits as well... broodingand mothering, laying, weight gain and muscling, tolerance to the weather, etc. Doesn't matter if you start with siblings or an outcross (I've done both) the end result is an amalgamation that's ultimately going to be inbred by necessity because that's how you achieve these desired traits. I never mentioned anything about SOP, that's completely irrelevant. What I would encourage you to do, though, is save yourself a lot of steps trying to develop health and vigor from thin air with a bunch of hatchery stock and talk to good breeders who are already breeding for longevity and health rather than starting with hatchery birds.

I breed plants, too. Chickens and tomatoes are not the same.

Best of luck!

 

[troyer]

I am starting a breeding project for a sustainable dual purpose breed that thrives on forage, goes broody and raises its own chicks, etc. In this area, it will need to be both cold and heat hardy and able to withstand some predator pressure.

You pretty much described my Cubalaya. You can't expect the same from hatchery Cubalaya though.
I do supplement with some feed.

 

[LaurenRitz]

The Mottled Java died on her nest last week. I don't think she was eating or drinking.

I got rid of the JG rooster (gave him to a friend) and currently have 2 hens sitting, each on four eggs. These will be Biel crosses, and a few of them are the MJ eggs.

I currently have five Biel-Dominique roosters in a grow-out pen and one of them will be my new roo.

 

[phasianidae]

Well, they are literally wild chickens. They are great foragers and great broodies. They aren't winter hardy, but if bred carefully enough with winter hardy breeds, you could get a chicken that would be perfect.

I kept a RJF rooster outside through this last winter in -20F.

 

[phasianidae]

I would recommend using one bantam breed in the mix to take the size down a bit. They will roost higher, be able to fly much better, and have a chance at escaping predators.

 

[LaurenRitz]

I have a set of 3 Biel x Dominique cockerels in a grow-out pen. In the main coop I have my Biel rooster and seven pullets, all laying.

The main flock is free ranging all around the batchelor pad (see don't touch for maybe a month) so this week I let the boys out to see how they interact.

The boys are interested in the girls. I've seen them tit-bitting and wing dancing, but when the girls don't show any interest they don't chase them down or gang up on them.

After a single tiff with the rooster there haven't been any more confrontations on that score. It seems that everything has gone back to normal.

A couple of concerns. I definitely don't need four roosters, so two of them have to go. Rehomed if possible, but if not I'll harvest the other two. I need to decide which to keep.

The other is that they don't precisely fit with my breeding program. I would love to have the rose-comb gene in my breeding group, but the birds I harvested earlier were 5 pounds live weight at 16 and 18 weeks. The small size at that age is not what I'm looking for, so I hesitate to put it into the gene pool only to have to eliminate it later.

One of the cockerels has a rose comb so wide he can't see past it, and he tends to attack anything that approaches from the front. I don't blame him on that, but it's usually his brothers. He'll be the next one to go, I think.

One of the girls hatched four chicks, but two died within a day. I think they were trampled by the other birds. They were in just the right place to have a ten pound rooster land on them when he came down off the roost. She is working on weaning the other two at 5 weeks, and she'salready started laying.

The other hen's eggs were taken by a snake just before hatch.

The mixes I have right now are Biel x Dominique, Biel x BA, and JG x RIR.