Post Bumblefoot Surgery Aftercare

[henrykel]

I needed to take my RIR Rooster to a vet the other day to have a top of foot 'bumblefoot' cleaned about and drained.

The vet said to leave the bandage on for only 2 days, and then let it continue to drain for another 8 days, and bring him in on the 10th day as followup.

All this with NO antibiotics, and instructions to NOT use antiseptics of any kind on the festering wound after the bandages are removed.

Only soap and water if he steps in poop. And one of the incisions is on the BOTTOM of the foot.

Is this kosher?

He is in a cage in my livingroom, on towels, and frequently steps on his poop before we can get to it. Tomorrow his bandages come off, and we need to know howto react if he 'soils' his foot with open and draining wounds.

The foot had been drained (but not cleaned out) once before by a different vet with similar instructions. And it got reinfected at the incision point. So naturally we are concerned.

No antisepsis in theses conditions is absolutely counterintuitive (and I have had human clinical courses!).

 

[azygous]

You have the correct instincts. Practically anyone understands the concept of basic open wound care and protecting it from bacteria entering the system through that open wound.

This is why the generally accepted method of treating bumblefoot here on BYC is to do regular soaks of the wounded foot and keep it bandaged to protect it from dirt and bacteria until the wound closes up and forms a solid scab.

The initial bumblefoot surgery includes debriding of all crusted, dead tissue and pus. Then application of a topical antibiotic ointment and bandaging. Every other day following, the bandage comes off, the wound is checked, and resoaked if it's still oozing, and further debriding is undertaken.

Bumblefoot can be one of the most labor intensive treatments we need to do for a chicken. Difficult cases can take weeks and months of intensive care before they heal.

Not all vets are sympathetic to chicken care. Not all vets are competent. Sometimes the chicken owner gives far better care than a vet would.

 

[TwoCrows]

You need to keep him in bandages and remove the bandaging daily for the first 2 weeks to make sure the infection is gone. You will be able to tell as the wound should start to scab over after a few days. If its pus yellow and turning red and hard, it will need another surgery. It should look like a reddish scab.

You will need to towel him up and lay him on your lap to do this procedure. What I do is after unwrapping, I use an alcohol wipe or rinse the hole with a saline solution, pat dry and apply neosporin (without the pain killer) inside or right on the hole. Never put the tip on the wound as it will contaminate the tube. I lay a small piece of gauze over the hole and wrap with pre-cut vet wrap (about 1 inch wide, I slice the tube itself to get this size), starting just above the foot joint, around between the toes, over the foot pad and back up the leg above the starting point. Not so tight it cuts off circulation, but tight enough as not to fall off. (Feel the toes 5 mins after wrapping, if they are cold, you wrapped too tightly).

After 2 weeks I check and change the bandage every 3 days. The bandages are left on for about 5 weeks or until the scab falls off. Keep the bird on dry clean ground, if the bandages get wet or soiled, replace them. This wound needs to be kept as clean and dry as possible until it is completely healed.

 

[Soy Milano]

Couldn't you just purchase a chicken diaper for him to wear?

 

[henrykel]

Actually the problem is that it is not a typical 'bumblefoot' - it was the result of an infection from a cut on the TOP of the foot, and never presented a scab (which would have made treatment simpler).

The vet said she wants the incisions to 'drain', but as one of the incisions is on the bottom of the foot, it is a cause of much concern. Once again after we take off the bandage today, she said to neither reapply a bandage or to provide any antibiotic internally or externally.

A diaper is the best method, but all the youtube ones are geared for smaller hens/bantams. Henry is a large RIR rooster! We are in the process of trying to figure out a homemade one to fit him, as there appear to be no local vendord for it, and the vet never even mentioned it, and when asked had no clue. Mind you she is only one of two known in our state.

 

[TwoCrows]

Actually the problem is that it is not a typical 'bumblefoot' - it was the result of an infection from a cut on the TOP of the foot, and never presented a scab (which would have made treatment simpler).

The vet said she wants the incisions to 'drain', but as one of the incisions is on the bottom of the foot, it is a cause of much concern. Once again after we take off the bandage today, she said to neither reapply a bandage or to provide any antibiotic internally or externally.

A diaper is the best method, but all the youtube ones are geared for smaller hens/bantams. Henry is a large RIR rooster! We are in the process of trying to figure out a homemade one to fit him, as there appear to be no local vendord for it, and the vet never even mentioned it, and when asked had no clue. Mind you she is only one of two known in our state.

Was this an MS infection? This bacteria causes all kinds of fluid build up between the toes, even hocks and what happens is the synovial fluid leaks into the pad of the foot from the foot joint and hocks. Daily drainings at the foot pad are required until the infection is cleared up entirely.

 

[henrykel]

MS? Do you mean MRSA? We have always assumed Staph Aureus.
The infection responds to Clindamycin but not Amoxicillin.
Neither vet who has dealt with this has taken a sample for determination of bacterial type.

I have a quality microscope, but would need good clinical textbook instructions was well as stains/procedures to do this at home.

We are in the process of fashioning a diaper from a large pants leg!.

How long does this draining process usually take? And would antiseptics/antibiotics really precent the process of recovery?

 

[TwoCrows]

MS? Do you mean MRSA? We have always assumed Staph Aureus.
The infection responds to Clindamycin but not Amoxicillin.
Neither vet who has dealt with this has taken a sample for determination of bacterial type.

I have a quality microscope, but would need good clinical textbook instructions was well as stains/procedures to do this at home.

We are in the process of fashioning a diaper from a large pants leg!.

How long does this draining process usually take? And would antiseptics/antibiotics really precent the process of recovery?




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View attachment 1999642

MS as in Mycoplasma Synoviea, a bacteria that settles in usually one joint, sometimes both of the hocks and foot joints of mainly chickens. Mycoplasma's have a sneaky way of hiding in healthy cells going undetected by the immune system, hence making them very difficult to eradicate from the bird entirely.

All that being said, this does not look like MS to me. The pad looks quite soft? I don't see the classic redness and intense swelling between the toes, foot joint or pad. I am wondering if he has gout? Does he eat layer feed with the hens? Gout generally appears in both feet however. Did the vet take any blood to test for bacteria's?

 

[TwoCrows]

Oh and I will also add since we are talking about MS...

I had MS in my first flock. Most will recommend culling the entire flock because the birds become carriers the rest of their days. I chose to use it as a learning experience and of course wanted to save my flock. And I did save them from the initial onset of MS. No doubt they were plagued over the years with the lingering bacteria, but their end was not a result directly of MS. They do become immune to the bacteria but carry it deep in their cells for ever.

I had to drain the feet of several birds daily for about 2 to 3 months, each bird healing on it's own accord. Basically I did a bumblefoot surgery, squeezing, draining, wrapping, every day on their feet along with long term use of Baytril and Doxycycline to combat the bacteria. I probably went through 20 miles of vet wrap, and hundreds of dollars in antibiotics, but I got them all through it and did not lose a single bird. It was a TON of work but it was a labor of love and the knowledge I gained from doing this was priceless. MS can attack other parts of the body instead of manifesting itself as what appears to be bumble foot. I saw some liver issues, anorexia, egg laying trouble, lots of strange issues. The birds all lived well past 6 years of age and one even made it to 9 years of age, all hatchery Black Australorps. This issue popped up when they were about 12 months old.

 

[henrykel]

He does eat the hen's layer food, but this infection appeared after a cut on top of his foot. The vet has not suggested gout, but if there is a way to keep him with the hens, and eat something additional as a treat to avoid the extra protein effects, please advise.

However, another problem has appeared. We have made and applied the diaper made of a large pant leg, but he is quite upset about it, and having problems walking, though there does not appear to be any undue constriction. We assume it is from discomfort from the 'bulge' in the rear, as he will try to walk backward.
How long should it tzake to adapt to the diaper?
We need to remove the bandage today, but are concerend that the additional activity with the new 'appendage' might cause undue stress on the incisions!

Many thanks for the info about Mycoplasma. Will keep an eye out for symptoms....