Processing Day Support Group ~ HELP us through the Emotions PLEASE!

[Beekissed]

Quote:
It can be, yes. As is egg peritonitis, reproductive cancer, prolapse, etc. Just as the bottom drops out of us old gals, the bottom drops out of them eventually. If they were never a layer, then it's less likely they will experience laying issues.

Again...we cannot equate an animal in pain with a human. A human can understand, vocalize, be assessed and receive medication for specific pains and illnesses..but a chicken cannot. We can't ask a chicken if it is in pain and expect to get an answer. Nor can we explain to the chicken why it must continue to live in pain because we want it to stick around for our pleasure.

I agree that people force some humans to live far past their natural life and in misery all the while and that is wrong too..but a far more complex issue than giving mercy to an old and infirm animal that simply has no choice but to live, live, live until it dies.

Every time I see this debate it comes around to comparing an animal's life to a human's and there simply is little comparison at the basic level. One creature has more comprehension and can take control of their quality of life in most cases...the other does not and cannot and depends on us to make that judgement for them.

I pray that when I can no longer make that judgement for myself that someone with true compassion doesn't force me to live in pain because they cannot bear to give me up.

 

[chicksooner]

Wait a minute! I walk more slowly and I have trouble doing things and yes, I am in constant pain. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy life. Let's put it in perspective, if you asked the chicken if it wanted to keep puttering around, what would be her answer? Pain is a fact of life, even a very healthy life. Now, if this chicken is fluffed up, not moving around and not eating, well, that's a different story. My understanding is that the chicken was getting around just fine and there was no pressing reason to end her life. Sometimes people are incredibly quick to euthanize animals, yet will prolong the suffering of their dying family members. I've never understood that dichotomy in the same person. Pets and people get old and getting old is uncomfortable. It's part of life. If this chicken is a pet, which I think the little boy thinks it is, then it is not unreasonable to let it live until there are signs it is not well and won't be well. I have parrots, so I understand how they do not make it obvious--unlike husbands!!!--when they are ill, but if you are observant you'll know.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that this particular chicken has never laid an egg, so egg binding is not an issue. Is egg binding an issue with older hens?

I don't think she was meaning that she wants to put it out of its misery just because. It is a chicken and is destined for the dinner table preferably before it is sick and not edible. I think if her kid had a problem with it then the little hen goes on to cluck another day. I personally feel that we are stewards of our animals and that means making the judgment call of when to euthanize. It sucks to have to make that call but it needs to be done.

 

[jajeanpierre]

We can't ask a chicken if it is in pain and expect to get an answer. Nor can we explain to the chicken why it must continue to live in pain because we want it to stick around for our pleasure.

I think you can tell if an animal is in pain, even birds. I have birds, and yes, as a prey animal they are motivated to not show weakness. You can tell by their activity level, their weight. All kinds of things. An animal in pain is an animal under stress and there are signs. If this chicken is a pet, then someone could easily monitor the bird. I'm not saying that they SHOULD do it, but it isn't wrong to not.

 

[chicksooner]

No egg binding here. I truly think she just ran out of eggs. Almost 2 yrs (with us) and no eggs (don't know how long she went at her old location without laying), but no health issues other than a runny butt (I think her vent is loose like Bee's girls - it's not gleet) and slow movements. She still jumps up about 3 ft to the roost every night, rooster mounts her, she even has a very healthy looking comb, and is an active forager. I just don't want to "waste" her by letting her decline so much that we wind up not being able to eat her. (The husband is super squeamish about eating anything he suspects is even a tad bit ill, so if she gets sick then she'll go to waste.)

Please don't think I'm going to massacre my kid's pet while he looks on, sobbing. I'm not a masochistic terror of a parent, but in observing my flock I know that her time is coming soon. If my son isn't quite ready for it in 4-5 weeks, maybe we'll just process the roosters - BUT it needs to happen at some point fairly soon.

I didn't think that at all. Chickens for most of us on this thread are destined to be chicken dinner. If one catches the heart strings of a kid it gets a lucky break until the kid decides chicken dinner would be more enjoyable. You and your kid get to make that call. No judgement coming from this corner.

 

[Toast n Jelly]

No egg binding here. I truly think she just ran out of eggs. Almost 2 yrs (with us) and no eggs (don't know how long she went at her old location without laying), but no health issues other than a runny butt (I think her vent is loose like Bee's girls - it's not gleet) and slow movements. She still jumps up about 3 ft to the roost every night, rooster mounts her, she even has a very healthy looking comb, and is an active forager. I just don't want to "waste" her by letting her decline so much that we wind up not being able to eat her. (The husband is super squeamish about eating anything he suspects is even a tad bit ill, so if she gets sick then she'll go to waste.)

Please don't think I'm going to massacre my kid's pet while he looks on, sobbing. I'm not a masochistic terror of a parent, but in observing my flock I know that her time is coming soon. If my son isn't quite ready for it in 4-5 weeks, maybe we'll just process the roosters - BUT it needs to happen at some point fairly soon.

Well then let it come..........If you sense suffering then by all means end her life, but if she's just getting on with aging, let her get on with it. Put your boy in charge of making her life comfortable as she ages, it might come in handy for you later
Have to agree with JJP "Sometimes people are incredibly quick to euthanize animals" Seems to be a sub set of chicken raisers on BYC that are too quick to promote euthanasia. Wonder why that is?

 

[Beekissed]

Maybe because they read about the enormous suffering of chickens on this forum, inflicted by those who want to "wait" and 'give them a chance" and "nurse them back to health" and we read how long this goes on and how badly it all ends for the birds.

Why is there such a large faction of those interested in making animals have a lingering and painful death because they are too slow to euthanize?

 

[ronott1]

Well then let it come..........If you sense suffering then by all means end her life, but if she's just getting on with aging, let her get on with it. Put your boy in charge of making her life comfortable as she ages, it might come in handy for you later
Have to agree with JJP "Sometimes people are incredibly quick to euthanize animals" Seems to be a sub set of chicken raisers on BYC that are too quick to promote euthanasia. Wonder why that is?

It's more likely with those coming from an Ag background.

I watched a Chow video about raising chickens. The person presenting is a famous Urban Farmer from San Francisco. She said she keeps her chickens for two years and then makes soup out of them. For a lot of people that is the way they operate. Then there are others that keep chickens as pets. They are willing to spend hundreds of dollars at the vet.

There is nothing wrong with either group. That is just the way the do things. Most fall somewhere in between.

I had a Golden Comet that laid eggs for just a couple of months and then stopped. She was a great girl so I kept her. Last August I found her dead one morning in the coop. She never did look sick to me so I did not know how bad she was. I guess I am a softy any way....

 

[Sally Sunshine]

DH was wondering if you can explain if we can or should not keep a few meaties in our layer pen? I don't want to get my CCL, WFS and orloffs sick for sure!

 

[Beekissed]

You can...but if you feed continuous feed, they will eat until they are too heavy to move. They really require food restriction of a type to grow normally and even then they are not really..normal. But I raised 20 with my layer flock with no health issues and they were wonderful when free ranged and fed once a day. I love the CX...they are sweet and moochy birds.

 

[sourland]

My six year old shot his first deer last season - with dad sitting right here, of course. It made me a nervous wreck, but I have a very responsible boy. Old soul type of kid. Dad took a video of it as it happened, and it is hilarious to watch. I'm not sure who was the most excited, dad or boy. We also let him shoot snapping turtles in our pond, which he loves.

The kicker is that I haven't been able to talk him into letting us kill his "favorite" chicken yet. Bee, I mentioned her to you on another thread. She's a 9 yr old RIR that hasn't laid an egg since we've had her. (She was part of a mature flock that was given to us when we first started out with chickens.) She is still healthy, but slow moving and post-menopausal - so, as I'm trying to become more practical in our chicken keeping (especially after reading Bee's Gnarly Bunch thread), I would like to cull her. I have my husband convinced to do it now. (He previously was under the impression that you couldn't eat an old bird.). But now I have to convince our son. Any other one of the chickens, I think he would be fine. But this particular one is his favorite and I don't want to scar him by letting his first experience with a cull being his favorite bird... Both of my boys (husband and boy) are such softies when it comes to certain creatures...

I on the other hand have no qualms about the chicken, but when my husband shot the stray dog that kept coming around a few months ago, I absolutely sobbed. It's funny how some things effect you while others don't.

Every kid deserves one 'pet' in the flock. Let that old hen go until her quality of life lessen. Then kill and bury her. That one animal can be particularly important to a kid. The old 'kid' who thought that his Dad killed his favorite duck long, long ago - durn lying sister.