Processing Day Support Group ~ HELP us through the Emotions PLEASE!

[jajeanpierre]

I remember as little girls, my sister and I keeping the legs from the deer Dad had killed and using them to make tracks in the mud...we had a lot of fun with animal parts back then. I bet a lot of folks nowadays would be horrified by that. Deer legs, squirrel tails, turkey wings...you name it, we played with it, saved it, and was fascinated by it. We used to help Mom butcher chickens and ask to see the contents of the crop and gizzard...always so interesting!

I did the same thing, except it was a neighbor's deer feet since my family didn't hunt. I think my grandfather was the last person in my family to hunt. I have been fishing a few times, but not a lot. I just wasn't exposed to killing animals for food. I was absolutely fascinated by watching the beating heart of the (supposedly) pithed frog. It wasn't until the ether wore off, the heart started racing and the frog struggling and writhing that I got upset--really, really upset.

My feelings about death are on the neurotic side of the spectrum, no doubt about it, but I think they are more common in this day and age because the experience of slaughter is so far removed from most of society. I worry my 21-year old son, a fervent animal lover, will be unable to eat any of the chickens I produce. (I've only cooked three little Silkies, so there is time for him to come around yet.) He was a biology major at university, but the dissection of the pithed frogs really upset him as well. I will be unhappy if I raise my own chickens for slaughter, yet buy store-bought garbage for him.

 

[Beekissed]

Bee, I used it yesterday for all of my birds. The picture does make it appear that the bottom of the cone is shallow and the bird could come out during the death throes. I learned a thing or two during use. 1. The bird's feet needed to face away from the open V. The first bird kicked me a couple times. 2. It needs to be mounted higher. My back can't handle the low height during repeated use. Fortunately, one of my sons was more than capable and willing to do this task. With that said, the cone worked great and I did not have any birds escape it during the process.

That's what I was worried about, Dave...them flopping out of the cone. The processing I demonstrated at this summer had all these nice metal cones made from flashing and they were just impossible to work with...the birds wouldn't go all the way into the cones because of the narrow neck of it, they kept withdrawing their heads into the cones, they kicked and got their feet down into the cones and propelled themselves out...you name it, the birds were finding it as a way to eject from those cones. Finally, I brought out my bleach jug and tacked it to a post and showed them how much better a bird fit into it, none could get out of it and they couldn't withdraw their heads into it. A less than $3 solution to the problem that lasts for years, is recycling an item that would normally be thrown away and takes about 2 min. to make and mount.

The flashing cones had even more depth to them than yours, so I was concerned with how you could keep your birds inside of it...but it seems you managed just fine and that's a great thing!

I raised chickens because I wanted them to have a humane life, which I accomplished. I wanted to feed my kids GMO free food. Which I was unable to accomplish because I can't find the ingredients to make feed & the main ingredients in commercial feed is GMO soy & corn. I know where they were raised & handled. I know they weren't washed in bleach to prevent bacteria in a factory plant. But are they really THAT much healthier for my kids if they have GMO's coursing through the meat?

Finally, I wanted this to be an affordable alternative. However, at $2.50 per chick initially, plus $20 a week or so to feed 12 birds. So at the recommended processing age of 10 weeks, it's costing me about $20 per bird (which is about 3.5lbs processed w/ bones) that I could buy at a grocery store for $4. Granted this is better for a lot of reasons, but we can't afford to spend 5 times as much on a chicken. Anyone have suggestions on getting these numbers to be more reasonable???

Also, I've heard stories about back in the day going out Sunday after church, killing a chicken then frying it. But on here lots of people say it's better if you rest the meat. How long am I supposed to rest it for? Can I filet it from the bone before resting? Anything else I need to know?

You can get chicks much cheaper than that and don't have to feed them quite so much, though if you have nowhere to free range, you aren't going to get to do it much cheaper than most who pen them and feed them. Fermenting the feeds can yield a better feed out of the GMO sourced feeds, either way you slice it....the main problem most people have with GMO is the Bacillus thuringiensis, (or Bt) is a Gram-positive, soil-dwelling bacterium, commonly used as a biological pesticide.

I don't know how effective the bacillus in the FF would be in neutralizing the Bt, but I'm thinking it can only make that feed better by inoculating the grain with a stronger bacillus such as lacto and aceti. The truth of the matter about GMO grains is that the byproducts of them are in nearly all the foods you feed your family from the store, from ketchup to cookies, in the form of high fructose corn syrup, so worrying about the feed you feed to chickens, which will yield a meat that is not directly derived from the GMO like the HFCS is, is like gagging on a gnat and swallowing a mule.

The fact is this...you cannot grow them cheaper than commercial ag can grow them, no matter how hard you try. That shouldn't even be the goal~cheap chicken. It can be done cheaper than you are currently doing it, but a person has to have the right property for that and you don't. The goal should be healthier meats...not those fed medicated feeds, fed too much and too quickly so they are staggering around from feeder to feeder, crowded and diseased, dying and suffering and then offered in the stores as quality meat for your family. Salmonella, e.coli, and who knows what other things contaminating the meats all collected in that pale, mushy tasteless piece of flesh under that cellophane.

The goal is a healthier animal, grown in healthier conditions, treated humanely, handled by you and not some underpaid, overworked laborer in a factory that doesn't care how much filth is in the meats or how they lived or died. That you have a hand on that bird from beginning to end and the bird is fed the best feeds you can give it, it lived the healthiest and most humane existence you can give it and then it died quickly, was handled hygienically during the processing and resides in your freezer or jar as something you grew, managed, and packaged all on your own. That is priceless...and as was mentioned in a previous post, comparing home raised, free ranged, fermented feeds fed chicken to a $4 chicken is like comparing a Pinto to a Lamborghini. Two very different items with different taste, appearance and quality. And, sure, they can both get you from A to B, but the goal is the journey, not the destination.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Two of our freedom ranger roosters are getting mean, bullying other chickens over food, & started crowing very early this morning.
I really thought I was mentally prepared for this, as they are meat birds.
But when the time came for these 2, I felt overwhelmingly sick to my stomach.
I had to send my husband out to do it, and couldn't even help.
We live in the south, so we love fried chicken. Which you need the skin for. But my husband told me if he was doing it alone he wasn't plucking he was skinning the whole bird.
I feel kinda bad-- he is out there right now getting ready to do these chickens and I am in here on the computer because after all this apparently I'm not actually ready.

Also,we aren't "poor" by any means, but we pretty much just make ends meet. We live in a nice area and have nice things and all, but I am very budget conscious we can't just freely spend. I started to raise chickens for meat for several reasons--

OH GOD HE JUST KILLED ONE! I NEED TO TURN ON THE TV!!! I THINK I'M GOING TO BE SICK.

I raised chickens because I wanted them to have a humane life, which I accomplished. I wanted to feed my kids GMO free food. Which I was unable to accomplish because I can't find the ingredients to make feed & the main ingredients in commercial feed is GMO soy & corn. I know where they were raised & handled. I know they weren't washed in bleach to prevent bacteria in a factory plant. But are they really THAT much healthier for my kids if they have GMO's coursing through the meat?

Finally, I wanted this to be an affordable alternative. However, at $2.50 per chick initially, plus $20 a week or so to feed 12 birds. So at the recommended processing age of 10 weeks, it's costing me about $20 per bird (which is about 3.5lbs processed w/ bones) that I could buy at a grocery store for $4. Granted this is better for a lot of reasons, but we can't afford to spend 5 times as much on a chicken. Anyone have suggestions on getting these numbers to be more reasonable???

Also, I've heard stories about back in the day going out Sunday after church, killing a chicken then frying it. But on here lots of people say it's better if you rest the meat. How long am I supposed to rest it for? Can I filet it from the bone before resting? Anything else I need to know?

I don't really think that GMO food is any different than non GMO food because all food gets broken down into it's primary components at a molecular level during digestion. I'm sure others don't feel the same way. I think the real problem is that GMO food changes the genetic material and introduces genes into a plant that has unintended consequences. I think the bee-death problem is because Monsanto managed to produce a GMO corn that can cope with the pesticides/herbicides that it sells. The bees, unfortunately, can't. In the past, those chemicals wouldn't have been used because you would have killed your crop.

My concerns with factory farming are three fold: Ethics of how another sentient being his handled and lives its life and death, concern over the garbage/chemicals that goes into that animal, and the risk from filth at a commercial slaughtering plant. It is worth a lot of money for me to raise my own chickens.

I have just slaughtered my first four birds in two sessions, so my feelings on it are still pretty raw. I really understand the horror you are feeling. There was no one to step up to the plated to kill the chickens for me so I wasn't able to freak out and not do it. It had to be done; I was the only one who could do it the way I wanted it done. There was no choice for me which made it easier in some respects.

You can reduce feed costs by allowing your chickens to forage for some of their own food. I supplement their protein with Soldier fly larvae I have in my compost bin. I have a meal worm farm started in the house for treats and winter feed. I'm sure the meal worms will be very expensive since they eat rolled oats. I feed a GMO-free feed that is not very expensive. I choose not to feed organic feed because much of it is a racket, but that's just my jaded opinion.

I think I read in one of my chicken books about a commerical compost company that collects restaurant left over food to compost. They also keep chickens. It is a commercial operation, not just a few chickens. The chickens forage for 100% of their food. I've thought of asking a local restaurant for their leftover food to feed my chickens. It would be a really cheap way to get high-quality protein, which is the expensive part of feed. Then you could feed a low protein diet, perhaps just scratch. It would take some research to get a balance, but that's something I've thought about.

I don't think you will ever be able to beat the grocery store's price unless your chickens free range or do something like the above. On the other hand, you will never get a chicken with any flavor from a grocery store, either.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I think the largest *issues people may have are their own expectations.
If you want to give chickens a humanistic life then you better be prepared to get sick every time you think of turning them into food. I certinaly would get sick about raising a family of 4 only to turn them into dumplings after they hit 18. Wow, no wonder its so hard!
Take the normal slight aversion to death all living things have, then the feelings we are given as a culture, multiply that by the relationship you have with the birds, then the humanistic life.
That's a LOT of emotional weight.

I'd recommend changing that expectation to the best darn life a chicken can hope for, ever.
Then give them the best darn death an animal can hope for (remember death in the natural world is really ugly even for people) and let their life nourish your family to give more little birdies a better chance and better life than they could of ever had.

I've seen farms with no real fences before because they took such good care of the birds and animals (and had other means of predator control) that none of them would run off.
What they did have to do was keep the neighboring escapee birds out, because life was so good at that place word spread.
Oh and they processed right in front of the flock. Had chicken at darn near every meal too.

Death is the part of life we all want to forget but must come to accept in some way to have a normal life.
Darn paradoxes!

Give your birds a great bird life and if you want introduce them to some of the funner things we humans can provide.
Also dont feel bad when its hard or you dont think you can do it. Fear and hesitation are normal and can be tools to slow you down and cause you to focus on doing it right.
Dont panic and you can get through just about anything. Most of all, dont expect it to go like the videos (completely) every situation is different and the first time is always the hardest.
I'm reminded of a great comic line.
Caution, its a tiny bit off color:
"Dont you want to go back and find the person you lost your virginity with and get with them again just to show them that you are Soooo much better now."

EDIT: *fixed a missing word and spelling goof.

 

[dutchbunny83]

Thank you.

I buy only organic for my kids and boycott all the major Monsanto supporting companies, even if one of their products is GMO free.
Which is why I started raising meat.
I know it won't be cheaper than the store, but even if it's for all the right reasons, we can't afford $20 per bird to feed our family of 4. That'd be $600 a month just on chicken dinners!
Hopefully I can find a way to make it more affordable.

With shipping, the freedom rangers break down to $2.70 a piece as chicks.
You can get the cornish cheaper, and they don't hang around as long before processing, but my experience with them wasn't a positive one.

 

[jajeanpierre]

You can get chicks much cheaper than that and don't have to feed them quite so much, though if you have nowhere to free range, you aren't going to get to do it much cheaper than most who pen them and feed them. Fermenting the feeds can yield a better feed out of the GMO sourced feeds, either way you slice it....the main problem most people have with GMO is the Bacillus thuringiensis, (or Bt) is a Gram-positive, soil-dwelling bacterium, commonly used as a biological pesticide.

I don't know how effective the bacillus in the FF would be in neutralizing the Bt, but I'm thinking it can only make that feed better by inoculating the grain with a stronger bacillus such as lacto and aceti. The truth of the matter about GMO grains is that the byproducts of them are in nearly all the foods you feed your family from the store, from ketchup to cookies, in the form of high fructose corn syrup, so worrying about the feed you feed to chickens, which will yield a meat that is not directly derived from the GMO like the HFCS is, is like gagging on a gnat and swallowing a mule.

The fact is this...you cannot grow them cheaper than commercial ag can grow them, no matter how hard you try. That shouldn't even be the goal~cheap chicken. It can be done cheaper than you are currently doing it, but a person has to have the right property for that and you don't. The goal should be healthier meats...not those fed medicated feeds, fed too much and too quickly so they are staggering around from feeder to feeder, crowded and diseased, dying and suffering and then offered in the stores as quality meat for your family. Salmonella, e.coli, and who knows what other things contaminating the meats all collected in that pale, mushy tasteless piece of flesh under that cellophane.

The goal is a healthier animal, grown in healthier conditions, treated humanely, handled by you and not some underpaid, overworked laborer in a factory that doesn't care how much filth is in the meats or how they lived or died. That you have a hand on that bird from beginning to end and the bird is fed the best feeds you can give it, it lived the healthiest and most humane existence you can give it and then it died quickly, was handled hygienically during the processing and resides in your freezer or jar as something you grew, managed, and packaged all on your own. That is priceless...and as was mentioned in a previous post, comparing home raised, free ranged, fermented feeds fed chicken to a $4 chicken is like comparing a Pinto to a Lamborghini. Two very different items with different taste, appearance and quality. And, sure, they can both get you from A to B, but the goal is the journey, not the destination.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thank you.

I buy only organic for my kids and boycott all the major Monsanto supporting companies, even if one of their products is GMO free.
Which is why I started raising meat.
I know it won't be cheaper than the store, but even if it's for all the right reasons, we can't afford $20 per bird to feed our family of 4. That'd be $600 a month just on chicken dinners!
Hopefully I can find a way to make it more affordable.

With shipping, the freedom rangers break down to $2.70 a piece as chicks.
You can get the cornish cheaper, and they don't hang around as long before processing, but my experience with them wasn't a positive one.

How much meat are you eating, a whole chicken a day? That seems like a lot. My two Silkies made three meals for two people. They had just over a pound of deboned meat for the two of them. One of the good things about raising and slaughtering my own chickens is that I am more respectful of my food and less wasteful. A chicken gave up its life for my dinner. I don't want to waste anything, and for me, eating more than I need is wasteful.

 

[aoxa]

hi, i've just been reading this thread for a while, haven't quite gotten to the point of trying out processing myself yet -- but wanted to chime in here on expectations re: cost. it sounds like a lot of people are able to raise their birds very economically, and that's fantastic, definitely a lot to learn from those strategies -- but if you compare cost of raising your own food to that in the grocery store, it's NOT guaranteed to be cheaper to do it yourself. the main reason many of us are interested in raising our own chickens is the ways that industrial animals are treated: insanely crowded housing, pumped full of hormones, etc. But also the scale at which those big industries are raising chickens allows the cost of each individual animal to be brought WAY down -- just like WalMart can sell you the same item as the local hardware store for way less, they are enjoying the benefits of economies of scale.

so yes, you CAN buy a chicken for $4 or $5 at most grocery stores -- but it's that cheap because of how its been raised. better to compare your own costs to the price of a locally-raised, free range chicken, which around here is more like $3-4 per pound.

Yeah Costco sells whole chickens already cooked for $6.99 Really hard to beat.. But if I compare with chicken at the farmer's market, I am saving a good $10 or more a bird.

 

[ronott1]

Yeah Costco sells whole chickens already cooked for $6.99 Really hard to beat.. But if I compare with chicken at the farmer's market, I am saving a good $10 or more a bird.

costco also sell organic chicken. It is near $10.00 per chicken in a two pack.

 

[aoxa]

How much meat are you eating, a whole chicken a day? That seems like a lot. My two Silkies made three meals for two people. They had just over a pound of deboned meat for the two of them. One of the good things about raising and slaughtering my own chickens is that I am more respectful of my food and less wasteful. A chicken gave up its life for my dinner. I don't want to waste anything, and for me, eating more than I need is wasteful.

Those are HUGE silkies!

Silkies should only be 1.5 pounds alive. Not sure how you got silkies with one pound of meat off of the bone. I'm surprised.

I couldn't eat them. Not with the price a live one goes for. That's besides the fact that the dark meat, skin and bones kind of puts me off. Does it taste any different?