Production reds vs hatchery rhode island reds?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by sydney13, May 25, 2011.

  1. sydney13

    sydney13 Chillin' With My Peeps

    1,364
    10
    161
    Mar 11, 2010
    Massachusetts
    Ideal poultry sent me these extra males who I'm thinking look like they are production reds.
    [​IMG]
    I've been doing a little reading and people seem to say that hathery quality rhode island reds are no diffrent than production reds. Ideal poultry sells both production reds and rhode island reds so I'm wondering what the difference between these two would be?
    According to ideal, their production reds are New hampshire and rhode island red crosses. Would this mean that one if the parents of my chicks is rhide island and the other new hampshire? Or do they create it through generations of breeding new hanpshire, rhode island hybrids with each other?

    Seeing that i can't keep any roosters where I live, I plan on using these guys for meat once they are big enough. Would they be better meat birds than a rhode islands since they have the new hampshire in them, or would rhode islands be beter for meat?
     
  2. chickendales

    chickendales Chillin' With My Peeps

    3,586
    21
    191
    Feb 24, 2011
    Michigan
    producetion reds are sex link chick at there hatchery but most people call production reds hatchery stock road island reds
     
  3. chickendales

    chickendales Chillin' With My Peeps

    3,586
    21
    191
    Feb 24, 2011
    Michigan
    those look like road island chicks
     
  4. Fred's Hens

    Fred's Hens Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

    Quote:Niether will produce a meat carcass of which super market shoppers are familiar. With that in mind, there are lots of folks who eat dual purpose birds.

    Hatcheries sell birds labelled RIR, but frankly, they long ago stopped looking like the standard of the breed. They are called RIR because they can be. Hatcheries call things pretty much what they want to call them. It provides a label of some kind for buyers like you and me. Are they RIR, according the breed standards? Hardly, but we're happy with them and that's fine. But we shouldn't have any false illusion that come close to heritage birds.

    Production Reds are just yet another name. It means a red bird that looks like a RIR, contain a high amount of RIR DNA, but have been bred for high egg production. Again, fine birds and many of us who have owned them love their egg production.

    A sex-link is yet another bird that uses RIR type DNA, but it is a specific hybrid, a cross over a white (silver) hen to enable sexing at hatch. Great layers to be sure.

    While some folks just call all these various hatchery red birds "production reds", there are so many "formulas" or "recipes".
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2011
  5. Cold Canadian

    Cold Canadian Chillin' With My Peeps

    999
    208
    196
    Jun 19, 2010
    Manitoba Canada
    Fred's Hens :

    Quote:Niether will produce a meat carcass of which super market shoppers are familiar. With that in mind, there are lots of folks who eat dual purpose birds.

    Hatcheries sell birds labelled RIR, but frankly, they long ago stopped looking like the standard of the breed. They are called RIR because they can be. Hatcheries call things pretty much what they want to call them. It provides a label of some kind for buyers like you and me. Are they RIR, according the breed standards? Hardly, but we're happy with them and that's fine. But we shouldn't have any false illusion that come close to heritage birds.

    Production Reds are just yet another name. It means a red bird that looks like a RIR, contain a high amount of RIR DNA, but have been bred for high egg production. Again, fine birds and many of us who have owned them love their egg production.

    A sex-link is yet another bird that uses RIR type DNA, but it is a specific hybrid, a cross over a white (silver) hen to enable sexing at hatch. Great layers to be sure.

    While some folks just call all these various hatchery red birds "production reds", there are so many "formulas" or "recipes".

    I totally agree with what Freds Hens said ! We used to have RIR on the farm when I was young and they were not at all what they sell as RIR at hatcheries these days ! The last bunch that I bought from a small hatchery that I called and asked if they were indeed RIR's and was told that they were, what a joke ! poorest excuse for calling a breed if there ever was ! Dumb birds would best discribe them ..........they are red , but that is where it stops .The true RIR's were darker , the chicks were actually red ( not yellow) they got broody , they were a heavy bird ! Everybody had them back in the day before the Cornish were introduced , laying , meat they were the bird that everyone had on the farm​
     
  6. Fred's Hens

    Fred's Hens Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

    Before anyone thinks my remarks appear to be "anti-hatchery", allow me just a few more comments. Hatcheries perform a valued service to their customers. They literally hatch millions of chicks per year. They provide this service at an affordable cost to the consumer. The birds are healthy, for the most part, and productive.

    Now, the reality is that chickens aren't quite like prized beef or fancy horse flesh. They aren't quite as pedigreed as fancy, champion dogs, for that matter.

    As long as the parent stock looks kind-sorta like the breed standards, the hatchery can and does call them RIR, or NH or Delaware or whatever. Who is going to call the "breed police" on them? No one. Much of their stock is commercial chicks from the Hendrix/ISA/DeKalb/Bovan poultry genetics conglomerate. The hatcheries can and do sell these chicks with all kind of fancy, pretty, made up names, when they really are product #2384 strain of layer or sex-link or whatever.

    Since many of the intended buyers for hatchery chicks care much more about egg laying ability than they do about breed standards, the beat goes on and many modern "breeds" continue to evolve farther and farther away from their roots. Would most small flock keepers really want a hen that only lays 160 eggs a year? I don't know, but I doubt it. Driven by a big, hungry world to feed and stressed by thin economic margins, commercial industry farms clearly only want high production, quick maturity and low feed costs.

    So, how wide spread is genuine interest is there in the older, traditional strains of breed standard birds? I honestly do not know, but I suspect the free market forces are at work here, and the result is our present reality. It is what it is.
     
  7. punky rooster

    punky rooster Awesome

    Jul 21, 2010
    Fred's Hens :

    Since many of the intended buyers for hatchery chicks care much more about egg laying ability than they do about breed standards, the beat goes on and many modern "breeds" continue to evolve farther and farther away from their roots. Would most small flock keepers really want a hen that only lays 160 eggs a year? I don't know, but I doubt it. Driven by a big, hungry world to feed and stressed by thin economic margins, commercial industry farms clearly only want high production, quick maturity and low feed costs.

    Hello,

    I do not know how much experience you have with standard bred birds, but I don't know of too many breeds that should only lay 160 eggs a year (mostly heavier dual purpose breeds). As you noted, standard bred birds will not lay as many eggs as their hatchery counter parts. But I do know, a bird that conforms to the standard, should produce to its original purpose well. If you want eggs, then get a Mediterranean breed. If you want a good amount eggs and meat, choose a dual purpose breed. If you want more meat, choose Cornish, Cochin, and Brahmas. A bird to serve it's purpose must be bred for it. "A Leghorn that only lays 100 eggs a year is not Standard Of Perfection." - Sam Brush, President, APA.

    If you want faster growing standard bred birds, select for it. I have a good strain of Plymouth Rocks, the breeder selects for faster growing birds; it shows. I have seen pictures of birds twice their age and they are feathering at a similar rate.

    And you are correct, if you don't really care for breed standards and just want chickens for eggs and pets, I highly recommend hatchery/feed store birds.


    To topic; I agree with Fred's hens post/

    Mitch [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2011
  8. Fred's Hens

    Fred's Hens Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

    Oh, I probably understated the heritage laying rate, for hyperbole, perhaps by quite a bit.[​IMG]

    My real point to the OP is this. Hatcheries can virtually call their chicks whatever they wish to call them.
     
  9. maryann momhen

    maryann momhen Chillin' With My Peeps

    116
    5
    58
    Jun 24, 2014
    new jersey
    [​IMG]I've heard that heritage RIR have a better temperament and are more docile than production reds. Is there a visible difference? I'd just be interested to know which mine is. I could ask the seller, but wondering if i can tell from appearance.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
  10. ejcrist

    ejcrist Chillin' With My Peeps

    890
    177
    121
    Oct 16, 2015
    Desert Hills, AZ
    I'm just now learning the SOP for RIR's and the bird in the picture is not it from what I can tell. It appears to be much more slender than a RIR which has a larger breast, longer back, and a square shape. It's also too light a color from what I can tell in the picture. Take my advice with a grain of salt since I'm no expert but I have been obsessing over body shapes of American Dual Purpose birds in the SOP lately.
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by