pullet still sick after deworming for capillary worms: UPDATE

[casportpony]

Quote: Probably best to skip the yogurt and give her avian specific probiotics.

-Kathy

 

[enola]

Kathy, do you think the negative coccidia test could have been a false negative?

 

[casportpony]

Kathy, do you think the negative coccidia test could have been a false negative?

The gal with the sick spalding peahen had a fecal that was negative for coccidia and capillary worms, then three days later one that was positive, so it's definitely possible. Her hen is still alive, but only because she's kept it inside and has tube fed it. Been three weeks, and the hen is just now starting to eat on her own.

-Kathy

 

[Michael Apple]

The gal with the sick spalding peahen had a fecal that was negative for coccidia and capillary worms, then three days later one that was positive, so it's definitely possible. Her hen is still alive, but only because she's kept it inside and has tube fed it. Been three weeks, and the hen is just now starting to eat on her own.

-Kathy

I have wormed 2-3 days in a row with Fenbendazole and Albendazole, 10 days apart from the last dose, and saw the same problem a month later with caecal worms. They are abundant in moist environments where lots of wild birds are, among other vectors. I've wormed once a year with no problems, and have wormed 3-4 times a year before, so just keep smacking them back. I've used an oxfendazole paste before that seemed very effective. I wouldn't waste time with Panacur (fenbendazole) for capillary worms. Albendazole is better. It prevents the uptake of glucose and the cell membranes of the worms deteriorate. Due to the poor absorption of fenbendazole, I wouldn't recommend it for capillary worms since they embed themselves in the mucosa. Here's a bit about capillary worms some others may find informative:
http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2649&Itemid=2938

 

[chicknmania]

I will summarize everyone's responses here. First of all I shouldn't have said she wasn't treated for cooci, because originally, as I said in my first thread, that's what I thought she had, because I found some unexplained blood spots on the barn floor, and no one else was sick. The blood could have been from anything, but based on finding it, I did decide to treat her with Sulfadimethoxine. She did improve with the Sulfa, her droppings solidified and returned to normal after three days, which is when I got the fecal sample. She stayed on the Sulfa for five days, but after day four, she had diarrhea again. Then I had the fecal done and found she had Capillary worms, which we have had an ongoing problem with, all year. We have had the flock on a deworming schedule all year, based on the Capillary worm findings. The flock as a whole seems quite healthy but we have lost a few individuals to the worms over the past several months.

I think I can get avian specific probiotics at the feed mill, I will look asap. And yes, I will try the canned pumpkin and buttermilk.

I don't know what the strength was of the Panacur, because the vet's office just put some in a regular pill bottle and wrote out the directions. She did seem to improve on it, but declined after finishing it. She is, as I said, a Jersey Giant, so it's possible she didn't get enough of the med. She will be a year old this spring, I don't think she's quite finished growing.

We have had a very mild winter, have barely had any freezing temperatures at all, although we did have a few very cold days in November. It doesn't appear that we will have any long hard freezes, which is what we need. So the worm vectors were probably never killed off by the cold, as we were hoping they would be.

 

[chicknmania]

I think we will order dewormer because although everyone agrees the Rooster Booster is excellent, it is pelletized and we were afraid some of the birds might not eat it. Although most of them will eat pelletized layer, I'm not sure they all do. Not sure yet what we are going to go with...I don't have tons of money to spend on it but I wanted to switch to a different dewormer than what we used the first part of the year, just to shake things up in general. I think the Rooster Booster will be a very good maintenance dewormer, once we get this under control, if that ever is. Frannie does eat pellets, so....

 

[chicknmania]

And lastly I haven't brought her inside yet, because if at all possible I like to keep them where they can hear and see their friends, due to less stress. As I said it's been very mild here , and she has a heat light all day which she sometimes avoids, which indicates to me that she's not cold. At night she goes into an enclosed dog crate that has been warmed with the heat light, although we don't leave the light on all night. Since she's been holding her own ok, so far, I haven't seen the need to bring her inside, but I can and will if she declines further. She freaks out if she's in a small pen (like the dog crate) for very long, so that's the other reason I haven't brought her inside.

 

[casportpony]

Pretty sure most liquid Panacur sold in the US is 10%, but in the UK it's 2.5%. Don't take this the wrong way, but why do so many people just accept what vets give them? It's should be in our best interest to understand better what meds we are giving our pets and why. FWIW, I have never been given a pill bottle of liquid or pills that did not have all of the drug details written on it... I do believe that it's illegal not to.

Bang for the buck, Valbazen is the *obvious* choice. Let me give you an example... If I were going to worm my 30 pound turkey for capillary worms it looks like this:

Safeguard - 7 ml for five days for a total of 35 ml
Valbazen - 2.4 ml per day. Not sure how many days will get 100% of them, doesn't matter, it still ends up much less expensive.

1000 ml bottle of Safeguard is ~$110
125 ml bottle of Safeguard is ~$24
500 ml bottle of Valbazen is ~$45

-Kathy

 

[Michael Apple]

For the record, it is best to use Amprolium rather than Sulfadimethoxine in the case of intestinal hemorrhaging due to enteritis. Supportive supplementation with Koagulone-A or similar supplementation in that case makes a big difference too.

Koagulone-A: http://dawesnutrition.com/tsb images/koagulone a/leaflet koagulone a.pdf

Cutler's carries it: http://cutlersupply.com/zen_new51/i...d=1064&zenid=c3479f1c4b853f398f364619d9c3b800

 

[casportpony]

And lastly I haven't brought her inside yet, because if at all possible I like to keep them where they can hear and see their friends, due to less stress. As I said it's been very mild here , and she has a heat light all day which she sometimes avoids, which indicates to me that she's not cold. At night she goes into an enclosed dog crate that has been warmed with the heat light, although we don't leave the light on all night. Since she's been holding her own ok, so far, I haven't seen the need to bring her inside, but I can and will if she declines further. She freaks out if she's in a small pen (like the dog crate) for very long, so that's the other reason I haven't brought her inside.

The spaulding peahen I wrote about was probably only hours away from dying, so she really needed to be in an 80-85 degree room.

-Kathy