pullet still sick after deworming for capillary worms: UPDATE

[chicknmania]

OK, and I have kept that in mind too that she might have internal damage. But what is confusing me is that when I had the last fecal test done, her droppings were normal......I expected a negative on everything. But it came back positive with Cocci. Michael, what you are saying makes sense, because I had already treated her for cocci with the sulfa, at the very beginning. She should not have had cocci, UNLESS they were not affected by the Sulfa, in which case maybe they would be affected with Amprol. But what does NOT make sense is the normal droppings. I did try her before with avian probiotics, per Kathy's suggestion...and they did seem to help a bit. I have poultry vitamins too. The vet thought before that she might have a secondary infection, so he agreed we should try antibiotics, which we did. We have tried everything under the sun (except Amprol) for this poor hen, and nothing seems to be getting her over the hump. She is continuing to pant while in the house, I don't think it's the heat as much as it is stress. So, here's the plan, I guess.

1) Take her off the Sulfa and recommence vitamins and probiotics.
2) Keep her in the house til the weather warms, which should be another two days, and then transition her back to the barn to her hospital pen.
3) Have another fecal test done...but these are getting expensive.

4) Based on fecal test results, if she still has Cocci, start her on Amprol?
5) If fecal is negative, should I try Baytril again, or just keep her on the vit/lyte or probiotics?

ALSO, I'd like to do a course of Amprol for the flock, just as a precaution, though they seem OK right now, except for one cockerel I've been treating for suspected Capillary worms, but he seems to be responding well. I'd like to let him out in the next day or so, if all goes well.

What would be the dose for the flock, with Corid 9.6 oral solution in their drinking water? I plan to deworm the flock, again as a precaution, with Rooster Booster, later this month, and then again in the spring with Amprol and Rooster Booster, separately, of course. Lastly, I have Valbazen too, but there doesn't seem to be a way to dose the whole flock with it, only individuals. Is there a way to mix it in the flock's drinking water?

Again we very much appreciate the support, thank you!

 

[casportpony]

No reason not to give her amprolium now, IMO. Here is a Corid dosing picture. FWIW, I always assume severe and treat as such.





-Kathy

 

[chicknmania]

I'm thinking of treating the flock, since apparently cocci does exist in their living quarters. However, none of the others are showing symptoms of anything at this time. So, would I use the severe outbreak, moderate outbreak, or preventative dose for them? In reading up on Cocci, I Iearned several interesting things, but one of them was that the chickens can and do develop immunity to them. Which seems to be the case in some of our much older birds. I would THINK that preventative dose would be sufficient for the flock, especially since the severe cold should have made a dent in the parasite population out there, but maybe moderate dose? Please advise, thanks.

 

[enola]

Coccidia protozoa are in the environment EVERYWHERE. Every flock in the world has coccidia in their digestive system, also. Stress is what causes coccidia to kick into high gear. Even older birds can succumb to coccidia if the stress level is high enough. If you are not seeing symptoms of coccidiosis in your flock, you could run a preventive level of treatment.

 

[chicknmania]

Well, fecal confirmed cocci only. Vet suggested that her panting and open mouth may be a sign she is developing pneumonia. He's still in favor of the injectable antibiotic over the Baytril, but stupidly I didn't get any. It wasn't until I got back here and fed her that I noticed she does have a very slight wheeze. However, she seems much improved from yesterday. yesterday all I did was stop the sulfa and put her on vitamins. Gave her probiotics with her evening meal and an entirely soft meal of cooked brown rice and applesauce with some yogurt. And gave her bowtie pasta with garlic and grape in the afternoon. Three small meals. This morning her diarrhea has dried up again and she is starving for food. Also able to stand up again now, though still very weak. She was alert enough to approach one of my houseplants and try to take a bite when I set her on the floor while I cleaned her cage, lol. . She had two small dishes of scrambled eggs and amprolwater- soaked Flock Raiser with applesauce for breakfast.. So my question is, should I start up the antibiotics again, or wait to see how she does? And is it ok to mix antibiotics and Amprol?

 

[chicknmania]

Any more suggestions????? Anyone??? It appears that she now has some pneumonia like respiratory issue. Open mouth breathing, slight wheezing, extremely weak. No discharge or anything. Still eating and drinking, but not as well She has to stop to take breaths in between bites. Feet feel very warm. We've had her on Baytril for three days, it's doing nothing. She s still on the Amprol, which is doing little. she has had diarrhea now for the past few days. It is hurting me to see her suffering, but I would like to keep trying as long as she can still eat. Her eyes do look brighter, and she has more interest in her surroundings, so in that small way she does seem to have improved.

 

[dawg53]

Any more suggestions????? Anyone??? It appears that she now has some pneumonia like respiratory issue. Open mouth breathing, slight wheezing, extremely weak. No discharge or anything. Still eating and drinking, but not as well She has to stop to take breaths in between bites. Feet feel very warm. We've had her on Baytril for three days, it's doing nothing. She s still on the Amprol, which is doing little. she has had diarrhea now for the past few days. It is hurting me to see her suffering, but I would like to keep trying as long as she can still eat. Her eyes do look brighter, and she has more interest in her surroundings, so in that small way she does seem to have improved.

You've pretty much thrown everything at her, including the kitchen sink. She's very weak as you stated, pumping more medications into her may do more harm than good. Dont forget that good bacteria as well as bad bacteria gets wiped out when using antibiotics requiring probiotics to rebuild the immune system.
If you're still wanting to treat her, try tylan 50 injectable. Give it to her orally; 1/2cc once a day for no more than 7 days. IF it's a respiratory disease, you should see some improvement in about 4 days, but continue treatment to the 7th day. Baytril shouldve helped if it was a respiratory disease. This leads me to believe there's something else going on which I could only guess...without treatments.
If the tylan 50 injectable doesnt work, I recommend that you make arrangements to have a necropsy performed. You can contact your local extension office to find out how to go about it. Good luck.

 

[chicknmania]

thank you everyone for all your support and help. She died overnight.

This is a rough one for me as she of course got very tame and spoiled in the process of me treating her, and I was pretty sure that I could get her over it. I agree that it probably was not something treatable with antibiotics. I wonder about aspergillosis. The only time she showed improvement in the past week was when we took her off the meds and did the probiotics and vitamins, but then she regressed again, so that's why we started up again with the antibiotics.

I am reluctant to have a necropsy done as the State of Ohio is not very graceful with these anymore, and that's who does them. They tend to speak their minds before they know, and they always assume the worst, which they share with the owner. It's terrifying. Last spring, when they did the necropsy and diagnosed the Capillaryworms, the vet was throwing out all kinds of unsubstantiated opinions, and telling me not to move any birds off our premises (which I wouldn't have anyway) And then it turned out to be parasites. Well well.

It is also quite expensive these days. They have changed a lot from when I had the first one done several years ago. Back then they were anxious to support us and gave us a lot of very beneficial advice. Now I think the State regards backyard chicken owners as a number one problem in their book. Which, in some cases, they are.

And I admire people who can do their own necropsy. I haven't quite reached that point. I'm a wimp.

The only bright side to this is that the chick I treated for worms recently (Peanut) did seem to make a full recovery, as did a cockerel I thought was displaying symptoms (Ice). I treated both with the Panacur and they are both with the flock again and doing well. The rest of the flock seems to be doing well. They are on preventative Amprol for cocci, and we will deworm later this month, and then in Spring. Maybe we will be winning by then.

 

[casportpony]

Sorry for your loss. I would have the necropsy done. If money is tight, explain that to them and you might find out that they have a grant to cover the costs for those that cannot afford it (Purdue does).

-Kathy

 

[dawg53]

Sorry for your loss. I believe you did all that you could possibly do. I also understand why you dont prefer a necropsy due to your state's involvement, most likely due to previous issues with a hatchery... no thanks to media exposure, crisis management and no telling what else.