Q Mereks symptoms, and Polish Chickens. NOT urgent but relevant to my pullets all the same...

[DarkWater1929]

Hi!

I bought six pullets from TSC (our feed/equipment, greedy corporate, but convenient and seductive, store) about eight weeks ago. Two Wyandottes, two Marans, one Americauna and one Polish. They have lived alone, together, since. They were mostly in a brooder area inside, as our winter storms hung around very late this year.

About eight to ten days ago, the polish began to exhibit symptoms that I associate with Marek's. She at first lost control of one leg, then a few days later, the other. She has always been smaller than the others, but I don't think she got picked on too much. At the first sign of trouble, I removed her to a pet carrier in my room, where she remains.

I braced myself for the onset of the disease in the other pullets. They have been together from day one, which was when they were shipped to TSC. As of today, nothing. The other girls are fine, and growing very quickly. So, I got to wondering about that. I realize now that, with one exception, every bird I have had, that I thought had Marek's, was Polish.

I adore chicken's. I like them all! I will take in sick, wounded or just unwanted chicken's, because I can't stand the way they are discarded like paper towels. "What? It's just a chicken!" Is a phrase that makes me wish I could inflict pain with my mind! Oh, how they would writhe! Ahem. Anyway.... I have had, I believe, five cases of "Marek's" in five years. Four polish, and one silkie. In each case, the sufferer lived nearly a year (the silkie lived two), in isolation, being hand-fed and watered two or more times per day. It is the best I can manage. Then, suddenly, it gets much worse, very quickly, and then they die. Never has there been a second case at or close to the same time. Weird, right?

When the silkie came down with the condition, because he was my daughter's favorite, I did more than usual searching to find the cause. Because his symptoms began with apparent blindness, I did not think of Merek's until he began to lose control of his neck. He actually was able to walk, right up until the end. His problem was that he could not eat, because he could not direct his beak to the food. So my job was to gently put his head in the feed dish and or the water dish a few times a day. At that time, I posted here about his symptoms, and got a pretty reasonable explanation. Apparently, birds like polish and silkie have thin skulls. He may have gotten pecked on the crown, which caused brain damage, which caused his symptoms. That makes perfect sense to me. However, when I think back on the other birds who have had it, particularly this one, it is hard for me to believe that that was the case. So I wonder, could there be a nutritional deficiency? Or some toxins in the environment that these birds are particularly susceptible to? Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? I wish I had sent one or more of them off for necropsies, but did not. I hope to be able to effect a cure on this little gal, once I find out what the deal is. In the event that I do not, of course, I will send her off for post-mortem exam.

I am sorry if this topic has already been hashed out. I am not really good at insite searches for some reason. If so, will someone please direct me to the threads?

Has anyone else had this issue? Will you tell me about it? THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

So I wonder, could there be a nutritional deficiency?

It's possible... all are individual and their immune system and absorption can be very different. I don't buy the pecking thing either.

Sounds very much like Marek's... great resource...
Marek's (click link)

Resources to help with getting necropsy...
How to Send a Bird for a Necropsy

State poultry labs

Never has there been a second case at or close to the same time. Weird, right?

Nope. Every year my family will get the flu and not everyone comes down with it. Again we all have individual immune systems.

There has been one gene identified that creates resistance to Marek's. Vaccinated birds not welcome here to hide the disease I rather have it kill itself out. I won't take in sick chickens because my personal flock is more important to me than saving the world. But I do responsibly handle every bird I hatch... meaning none are discarded as trash.

I have had, I believe, five cases of "Marek's" in five years. Four polish, and one silkie. In each case, the sufferer lived nearly a year (the silkie lived two), in isolation, being hand-fed and watered two or more times per day. It is the best I can manage.

Honestly that sounds very sad for the chicken being a flock animal (not the feed and water part). Euthanasia (even by a vet) may be kinder.

No finger pointing intended... You do what you think is right and to the best of your ability.. I get that!

What are you currently doing to treat for vitamin deficit? What do you feed including treats and supplements on a regular basis? Did you have to treat these (or others) for coccidiosis prior to symptoms that appear similar to Marek's?

Some folks find a sling helpful..

Hang in there!

 

[DarkWater1929]

Thank you so much, for the info, and also the perspective. I forget about the flock animal aspect of the situation. I cannot tell you how often I have agonized over this issue, of doing my best to keep these birds alive. The philosophy I am the least in horror of, is that, it is clear to me when a bird has given up on life. They don't interact; they don't eat or drink. I offer support to these birds, as they die. That is to say, they have access to food and water, but I don't force it on them. I keep them warm, talk, and sing, to them, and try not to leave them alone for long periods.

But, some birds, like my precious "Baby," show a fighting desire to live. This story will likely make some of you think that I am a monster. Some of my friends do, and we have had heated arguments over Baby, and her circumstances. I am not, and have never been, sure that I am doing the right thing. Nothing in the following is anything I am proud of, or which I would offer as guidance to anyone else. I guess I will tell it here both by way of contributing to this very helpful discussion, and as a confession. I don't know that I am right! I just can't make myself do otherwise.

Baby is a splash orpington. She is not Ill. She was brought to me as a fuzzy baby, with a slipped tendon. Sadly, nearly a week had passed before ever I saw her, and the tendon had contracted significantly. My brief attempts to put it back in place were clearly excruciating to her, so, after confirming through online research that nothing short of surgery would help her, I stopped trying to fix it. She was mobile, then, albeit with difficulty. But, she came with a companion, and the two seemed happy enough.

Some time later, as they got bigger, the companion began to pick on Baby, so I removed her, since Baby could not effectively escape or defend herself. She was very vocal, however, about the abuse, and she continues to be a very vocal bird, both when pleased, and displeased.

As she got older, and heavier, it became harder for her to get around. I made her a sling. Indeed, I have made several slings for her. If her good leg can touch the ground, she will invariably launch herself from the sling. If it cannot touch the ground, she cries and fusses nonstop. When I "rescue" her, her legs and feet are always chilly, no matter how warm the room. (Yes, Baby lives inside the house, and often goes to work with me.) I have experimented with different designs, and different fabrics, to no avail. If her foot can touch, she seems unable to resist working it.

I have tried three times to gently ease Baby out of the world. I cannot afford a vet to do it, when it is not "critical.". Or, so I tell myself, I guess. On this topic, I do not truly trust my inner voice, because the truth is, that I do not want to kill this bird. But, after incessant nagging from one friend, in particular, along with accusations of cruelty and abuse, I did try. It nearly broke my heart, and I still shrink inwardly at the memory. My efforts, however, had no apparent effect on Baby. I attempted to overdose her, which was, I reasoned, what the vet would do. Again, judge me if you will. I really care about this bird, and spend more time than you would believe, consulting, researching, praying about, and agonizing over, this issue. If you could do better, then I congratulate your chickens on their good fortune!

I have contacted several vets, to inquire about the possibility of amputation of the useless leg. I still wonder if she would be better off without it. Not one single vet, however, even gave me the courtesy of a return phone call. At this point, despite the many videos on the web, depicting the success of one-legged chicken's, I do not think that Baby would be able to adjust. Her body has changed shape, in response to her condition. I do not think that she could find her balance.

So, Baby is three, now. My friends, and the one in particular, continue to be angry at me that she is alive. But, she is happy when we are together. She has taught me chicken language for thirsty and hungry. I am also beginning to recognize her "I'm about to poop on you!" message. I cuddle her, and often just touch the tip of my nose to her beak, in affection. She has begun to mirror this gesture. It seems impossible to me to believe that this is not an expression of genuine care. Stockholm syndrome is, I guess, another possibility.

Not all of the birds get the kind of time from me that Baby does. But they all get my constant assessing, and reassessing of their condition, both physical and emotional, and endless meditation, prayer, and agonization about what is "best" for them. I guess the point I come back to, again and again, is this. I have endured some pretty awful circumstances in my 52 years, on and off. I know people who live with far worse, on a daily basis. Yet, neither I, nor they, would choose to reject life. Indeed, I resent the fact that mine will not continue indefinitely. I have no idea what Baby is aware of, or thinks about, that topic. But I know that she fights to live. I am not able to try again to take away that life. Maybe someone will say the things that changed that for me, but not so far. It is a miserable topic, as discussions of one person's right to determine the fate of another always are.

Thanks for reading that. Baby, and the fact that I will not "cull" her, of lifeels sortke a dark, disgraceful secret to me. Telling you all about her helps with that.

 

[DarkWater1929]