Quail on Deep Litter - Why it Works

[titika]

My quail are on the ground so it's hard to keep clean. After reading this article I added about 3 inches of pine shavings over the sand I had on the floor. Definately helped with the smell and seems cleaner and dryer. I also have trays of oyster shell for dust baths and added calcium. I really like this deep litter idea. I play on adding grass clippings and leaves and things when they are available.

 

[bdfive]

bdfive, you may want to start your own thread so people see that. I don't know anything about bobwhites.

Ok, something I learned the hard way - You must have enough loose material on top. I ran out of shavings and just added clean hay instead, but it gets too matted down and the poo sits on top, especially if it gets wet at all. I learned this the hard way, I have two birds with poo balls on their feet. I'm not one bit happy but I know it's my own fault. I knew it was getting hard to "stir" the bedding because it had too much hay in the mix, I just didn't think it would be a big deal since they didn't look or smell dirty.

I'm adding dry dead leaves and other loose material for now so no one else has been affected and tomorrow I'll soak the poor poo feet. They've been like this for a few days but it's been too cold to risk getting them wet so I've just been keeping a close eye on them. Tomorrow is still rainy but it will be warm so they're going to get soaked while I reinforce their roof from any leaking.

On the bright side, when it's cold I got out to find they've dug nests in the hay to bury themselves and stay warm. It is super cute and nice to know they can protect themselves from the cold. Now I just have to get the right balance to keep them in good shape overall.
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Thanks for the advice of not using hay. It's cheap and tempting. I use pine shavings in my 10 by 12 foot peachick (baby peacocks) house and it works great. I add food grade Diatomaceous Earth I get at Tractor Supply.

Can someone please explain to me what is wrong with the quail having poo on their feet? Why must it be soaked/washed off? I clean the big poo up twice a day in my peacock pens but the peafowl still has poo on their feet and I've never had any foot problems with them. Most peacock breeders and hobbiests don't clean the pens at all and have never heard of the poo causing problems other then worms which they medicate twice a year for. Are quail different that they need their feet kept clean????

I'm still trying to decide if I want to put the quail in my 3' by 10' cage built on the side of a wall under a roof or if I want to put them with 2 Red Golden Pheasant in a nice 9' by 24' pen on the ground. I'm concerned with snakes and fireants with them on the ground but it would be so much easier for me. Half of that pen has a roof and walls on 3 sides. Rest is 1" by 2" welded wire. I'd have to add something at the bottom to keep predators from reaching through and grabbing them. Ugh, sometimes I believe it would be best to pass them on to another good home.

 

[flg8r]

I don't think hay is bad, just be sure to have loose material too. I think the movement of the bedding is what keeps their feet clean, plus them being able to scratch.

And I have no idea about other birds, these are the only I've ever owned, but the poop will ball on their toes and harden. It doesn't seem to be comfortable for them and I believe it can cause infection if left long enough. It might fall off on its own or it might not.

2" wire won't be small enough to keep a quail in. I've had them get out of dog crates before and I think the slats are less than 2" on crates. Quail aren't difficult to raise, I'm enjoying them quite a bit, but if you already have your hands full with other birds, well, you know what you can take on.

 

[Quailsong]

I first want to say thank you to everyone who kept this thread going while I was away & gave so much encouragement for the Deep Litter method. I took a big hiatus before the winter to focus on things at home & really settling in since the move to our new home. It was well needed, but now I'm back & ready to continue with more stories of my quail adventures!

I also want to say I'm very happy to read all these posts from people who switched to DL & how happy their quail are now. This is wonderful. As for all the questions, some were answered & some still had questions so I'll try to answer where I can. Pardon me if I missed any!

Fire Ants: I've never had to deal with quail & fire ants together, though I did stand on a colony as a kid (but that's another story). I would say any type of critter/bug which can potentially swarm & bite/sting might be dangerous to caged quail (and any type of small pet/livestock for that matter).

If the quail are caged, they're essentially trapped since they can't fly or run to escape. So it's up to their caretaker (that's you) to make sure they have a safe place to live, free of pests. Either the pen should be moved away from any troublesome ant colonies or secured in such a way that the ants cannot enter. For the latter, I would assume a combination of mesh, safe traps (non-poison) & sticky mats might help. It depends on how bad the pests are & what resources you have - please research & ask around locally if you can!

As for the use of straw...

I would recommend against using any type of LONG & hollow straw for poultry deep litter - especially for small birds like quail. If you can get it pre-shredded (or shred it yourself somehow) & if the cores aren't hugely hollow then go with that but make the portions smaller than the rest of the litter (ie, more shavings, leaves, dry grass). Otherwise it becomes a problem. Long straw doesn't 'mesh' well together with the deep litter, often floating on top or matting like cement on the ground (just like with larger chicken runs). The hollow cores means the straw is more likely to encourage mites to make their home in it. Lastly, straw is not very absorbent - in the past it was used as a type of natural shingle to shed water off barns, houses & animal food/hay huts. You don't want water shed, you want water absorbancy.

DE in deep litter. I've never used it, I don't personally like the idea of it for a few reasons. Since that stuff can easily kill bad bacteria in one swoop, it may also kill beneficial bacteria in the litter. That might mean the litter won't break down as quickly. Remember, you don't want to keep deep litter there forever, you want it to be used & moved into compost as it gets broken down by time & scratching. A healthy deep litter is a thriving environment for GOOD bacteria & bugs (like springtails).

If you decide to use DE at all I'd say do it sparingly, in little tests to see how it affects the litter. Make sure it's turned in well so it doesn't hurt your quails lungs or eyes.

Wood Ash substitute. Oh boy. I live in Canada so wood ash is something of a surplus here - especially because of this crazy winter. I wouldn't know what to use as an exact substitute to wood ash but it's possible you could ask around & see if there are places that make wood ash as a byproduct. I would speak with national parks, call local pagan or Wiccan groups (some may hold outdoor spiritual events with bonfires), and the likes.

Alternatively, if you have a BBQ grill, you could try to burn bits of wood in that - I've never done it so def research first. It's also possible to order some wood ash, or get a friend in colder climates to send you a package of fine ash - it would be much lighter than shipping soil. I hope that helps give some ideas.

Okay so, now for my own update!

I wanted to mention here how wonderful deep litter is for someone in a freezing cold climate like me. Spring is right around the corner, though yesterday's blizzard suggests we've got another couple weeks more to go. But I digress...

No Drafts: Quail do NOT like drafts. Especially under their feather-skirts! Having deep litter always at their feet means they can squat down to rest anytime & stay warm with no drafts under them - unlike a mesh floor. Sitting for a long while will also keep the ground warm & cozy in that spot all night. It's kinda like when your bed is cold when you first lie down, but when you wake up in the morning you don't want to leave it 'cause it's so warm & everything else is freezing. Now imagine laying on a bed that has cold drafts coming up from the springs. Ugh! That's what I imagine wire mesh floors are like for the quail.

Warm Feet: There is NO worry about their feet freezing to metal floors. I can have open water tubs, they can run right in them (much to my displeasure) & run back on the litter without hurting their feet. Ever lick a frozen pole as a kid? (I admit I did this!) It's not fun, neither would be running on wire with wet feet (from water or feces). I've also found their feet stay clean on deep litter, even in winter. While they do get a bit dirty, they don't clump & so far I've not had to wash any of their feet while they've been in the coop.

Downside: The only big downside I've found is the litter does get hard & may freeze in very cold weather if there's a bit too much moisture in the litter. But at around 0C/32F the deep litter is workable & easy to fluff with a scooper (I use a plastic dust pan). Since my quail balance is about even with the amount of litter they mess up, I just leave the DL till it thaws & then work it. Sometimes I just scatter a few handfuls of shavings on top & let them work it for me...it keeps them entertained.

Below is a video of my quail on the deep litter in the later end of winter (February). It was getting close to -30C/-22F consistently, so last month I decided to make them a little quail hut. They don't use it as often anymore since it's only around -10C/16F & prefer the open pen to the little hut. Though some do lay inside the hut, which is nice.

The deep litter at the time was mostly pine shavings, since grass & leaves are in short supply when snow is up to your knees. I'll have to remember to save a bag or two of dry leaves in the coop's loft for the quail.

That's all for my update. Please let me know how your quail have been doing in winter. If you have any more questions or even some new pictures of your quails & DL runs/coops please feel free to share!

 

[Hope It]

Very interesting! I am learning a lot! I may experiment with something like this. After seeing my chicks so happy in the wood shavings in their brooder, I am hesitant to put them fully on wire when I move them outside. I am very limited in what "filling" I can use though. I live in Phoenix area and our soil is clay-based and hard, and we have very little shedding of leaves in the fall.

I know what you mean! Last week I moved my texas a&m's out of the brooder with wood shavings into a wire bottom pen and felt baaaad! But, I ensurde they have most of the floor covered with multiple shallow boxes of sand and boxes of wood shavings, so very little floor is actually wire They sure do love those boxes and get out to eat, socialize and then get back into shavings or sand boxes to rest. It seems to work OK for mine

But this is great info and something I might consider doing in the future. Thanks for the great deal of information!
Hope

 

[falconertomt]

I have my first batch of quail going into lockdown this weekend. I may have to try this method out. Thanks for the information

 

[titika]

There is still a pretty strong ammonia smell in my coop. It's just deep pine shavings right now though.

 

[falconertomt]

There is still a pretty strong ammonia smell in my coop. It's just deep pine shavings right now though.

That will have a lot to do with the chemical makeup of the composting. The same thing happens when you try to compost too many grass clippings. Try adding dry leaves, and ensuring that the coop floor is staying dry. Mixing in some existing soil will also help. You have too much poop and not enough other stuff for proper decomposition, Add more carbon rich materials to your bedding. Your bedding may also need to be stirred up and aerated.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/carbonrich-materials-for-your-compost-pile.html

 

[Quailsong]

As falconertomt suggested, there's lots of things you can do to improve your deep litter. It's not a static mat you just throw down & ignore (well you can up to a point). It needs a bit of care to get it working well.

Things to consider are introducing a variety to your deep litter, frequency of turning &/or more frequent changes. Sometimes all that's needed is a fluffing with a dustpan & the quail will start stirring it again. Keep in mind that very moist deep litter might be a sign that one (or more) of your birds is ill (watery droppings) & should be checked over. Or you've a leaky/spilled water dish which needs to be raised, repaired, etc.

In the end, it comes down to practice/experience & gut feeling. If the deep litter looks like it needs a little something more like leaves or whatnot, add it in & see how it goes.

 

[titika]

As falconertomt suggested, there's lots of things you can do to improve your deep litter. It's not a static mat you just throw down & ignore (well you can up to a point). It needs a bit of care to get it working well.

Things to consider are introducing a variety to your deep litter, frequency of turning &/or more frequent changes. Sometimes all that's needed is a fluffing with a dustpan & the quail will start stirring it again. Keep in mind that very moist deep litter might be a sign that one (or more) of your birds is ill (watery droppings) & should be checked over. Or you've a leaky/spilled water dish which needs to be raised, repaired, etc.

In the end, it comes down to practice/experience & gut feeling. If the deep litter looks like it needs a little something more like leaves or whatnot, add it in & see how it goes.

i turn it twice a day and shift stuff around. I'll try adding some other stuff and see if that helps. Also, the pen has a dirt floor but our soil doesn't drain will here so the dirt underneath is almost always wet. I try not to stir that in too much. I think I'm going to put a wood floor under the coop and just let them have dirt/grass yard outside.