Question about air sacs.

[dandydoodle]

This is the second time I have tried to hatch out some eggs I have had mailed in from a certain breeder. The first time only one developed and it passed away because, it didn't have an air sac and didn't make it through hatch. I decided to try it one more time and out of the 9 I put in only three developed all the way to hatch and known of them had air sacs. Does anyone know what could cause, them not to have an air sac? Is this because, of shipping and handling and the eggs getting roughed up in the mail or is it more then likely a defect with the birds? I know there is nothing I can do about it but, I was just wondering if someone could help ease my curiousity on why this has happened and twice.

Thanks,
Michelle

 

[dandydoodle]

anyone???

 

[dandydoodle]

 

[Brookhavens]

Shipping is very rough on eggs. It sounds as if you had detached air cells or scrambled eggs from shipping. Did you let the eggs settle for at least 12-24 hours before you placed them in the incubator? When did you start turning them? Were they set laying down or upright in a carton? Here is a very good article on hatching shipped eggs. SHIPPED EGGS. It has worked for me so far.

 

[Sally Sunshine]

This is the second time I have tried to hatch out some eggs I have had mailed in from a certain breeder. The first time only one developed and it passed away because, it didn't have an air sac and didn't make it through hatch. I decided to try it one more time and out of the 9 I put in only three developed all the way to hatch and known of them had air sacs. Does anyone know what could cause, them not to have an air sac? Is this because, of shipping and handling and the eggs getting roughed up in the mail or is it more then likely a defect with the birds? I know there is nothing I can do about it but, I was just wondering if someone could help ease my curiousity on why this has happened and twice.

Thanks,
Michelle

Hi Michelle... I just went through all this.... take time and read through my notes and links and you will really understand aircells... and shipped eggs....

click on hatching eggs 101 below in my signature it will take u there.... its a complete diary to hatch

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/hatching-eggs-101

SITES oN AIR CELL DAMAGE...
1. AIR CELL INFO for Incubation http://www.squidoo.com/mailed-shipped-fertilised-chickens-eggs-fertilized-hatching-chicken-egg A normal air cell in a freshly laid egg are dime sized up to quarter sized in a week-old or older egg, and fixed at the fat end and just looks like a line when candled.
From rough shipping it is possible to see detached, loose or rolling air sacs as seen in the picture. For those eggs, you need to change your hatch plan. They have to sit 24 hours always pointy end down, to see if the aircells will reattach, about half of them will in my experience. Either way, leave them in the egg carton for all 21 days of the hatch. Stop turning early at Day 16 not 18. It is possible to hatch chicks from eggs with detached air sacs when the cells never stabilized even after 24 hours, but were left upright for hatch. Make sure any turning is gentle, and no flatter than 45 degrees, more vertical is better! Disrupted, shattered or ruptured air sacs are seen when instead of one bubble on the side of the egg, there are more than one. Handling must be very rough in these situations and I believe can be enough to kill the embryo in the first place. These should have the same treatment as the detached air sac eggs, but don't re-candle after 24 hours, these won't reattach. Just having the air bubbles rising to the top of the eggs at the fat end while hatching the eggs vertically in trays gives any chicks that do grow chance to pip into the air cell. Likelihood of a chick hatching is lower than intact displaced air cell eggs, but worth a try if the eggs show no sign of spoilage or leaking.
2. Suggestions for Management of Damaged and Mal-positioned Egg Air Cells https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/501034/suggestions-for-management-of-damaged-and-mal-positioned-egg-air-cells "These eggs should then be set into the incubator in a vertical position and not turned for 36-48 hours, after that turning by tilting side to side at a 45 degree angle helps to keep the air at the top. Otherwise leave well alone and dont remove for weighing. During the second week the chorio-allantoic membrane (generously supplied with blood vessels) grows out from the chick to line the complete inner surface, including the air cell. Think of it as inflating a balloon within an already inflated balloon. The air cell is now resealed and from 15 days can be treated normally though gentle handling is needed."
3. http://skeffling.hubpages.com/hub/Chicken-Incubators-and-getting-the-most-chicks-from-your-hatching-eggs "For rolling, detached or disrupted air cells (so cells no longer at fat end of the egg but like a spirit level bubble on the long side), you’ll need to change your hatch plan. They need to sit 24 hours always pointy end down, to see if the cells will reattach. Leave them in the egg carton for all 21 days of the hatch. Stop turning early at Day 16 not 18. I have hatched chicks from eggs with detached air sacs where the cells never stabilized even after 24 hours, but were left upright for hatch. Make sure any turning is gentle, and 45% or more vertical

(NOTES: CHANGE of HATCH Plan DUE to EGG Cell Damage on most of the 12 SILKIE eggs. Settle 24 hours fat end up in Styro Egg Cartton with the bottoms cut out so that the eggs still get air circulation, heat and do not get condensation under them. Got it!)

 

[4hchickmama]

Hi Michelle... I just went through all this.... take time and read through my notes and links and you will really understand aircells... and shipped eggs....

click on hatching eggs 101 below in my signature it will take u there.... its a complete diary to hatch

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/hatching-eggs-101

SITES oN AIR CELL DAMAGE...
1. AIR CELL INFO for Incubation http://www.squidoo.com/mailed-shipped-fertilised-chickens-eggs-fertilized-hatching-chicken-egg A normal air cell in a freshly laid egg are dime sized up to quarter sized in a week-old or older egg, and fixed at the fat end and just looks like a line when candled.
From rough shipping it is possible to see detached, loose or rolling air sacs as seen in the picture. For those eggs, you need to change your hatch plan. They have to sit 24 hours always pointy end down, to see if the aircells will reattach, about half of them will in my experience. Either way, leave them in the egg carton for all 21 days of the hatch. Stop turning early at Day 16 not 18. It is possible to hatch chicks from eggs with detached air sacs when the cells never stabilized even after 24 hours, but were left upright for hatch. Make sure any turning is gentle, and no flatter than 45 degrees, more vertical is better! Disrupted, shattered or ruptured air sacs are seen when instead of one bubble on the side of the egg, there are more than one. Handling must be very rough in these situations and I believe can be enough to kill the embryo in the first place. These should have the same treatment as the detached air sac eggs, but don't re-candle after 24 hours, these won't reattach. Just having the air bubbles rising to the top of the eggs at the fat end while hatching the eggs vertically in trays gives any chicks that do grow chance to pip into the air cell. Likelihood of a chick hatching is lower than intact displaced air cell eggs, but worth a try if the eggs show no sign of spoilage or leaking.
2. Suggestions for Management of Damaged and Mal-positioned Egg Air Cells https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/501034/suggestions-for-management-of-damaged-and-mal-positioned-egg-air-cells "These eggs should then be set into the incubator in a vertical position and not turned for 36-48 hours, after that turning by tilting side to side at a 45 degree angle helps to keep the air at the top. Otherwise leave well alone and dont remove for weighing. During the second week the chorio-allantoic membrane (generously supplied with blood vessels) grows out from the chick to line the complete inner surface, including the air cell. Think of it as inflating a balloon within an already inflated balloon. The air cell is now resealed and from 15 days can be treated normally though gentle handling is needed."
3. http://skeffling.hubpages.com/hub/Chicken-Incubators-and-getting-the-most-chicks-from-your-hatching-eggs "For rolling, detached or disrupted air cells (so cells no longer at fat end of the egg but like a spirit level bubble on the long side), you’ll need to change your hatch plan. They need to sit 24 hours always pointy end down, to see if the cells will reattach. Leave them in the egg carton for all 21 days of the hatch. Stop turning early at Day 16 not 18. I have hatched chicks from eggs with detached air sacs where the cells never stabilized even after 24 hours, but were left upright for hatch. Make sure any turning is gentle, and 45% or more vertical

(NOTES: CHANGE of HATCH Plan DUE to EGG Cell Damage on most of the 12 SILKIE eggs. Settle 24 hours fat end up in Styro Egg Cartton with the bottoms cut out so that the eggs still get air circulation, heat and do not get condensation under them. Got it!)

I have an issue with one of my eggs (not shipped) and if i am reading your post correctly, I should keep that one air cell up during hatching? The air cell is on the wide end, but very much to the side of the egg. The chick inside is devloping normally. They are in a circ air incubator with a auto turner right now, but I can leave it upright if that will help it along. I usually take them out of the turner and put them on their side on the wire mesh.

 

[Sally Sunshine]

I have an issue with one of my eggs (not shipped) and if i am reading your post correctly, I should keep that one air cell up during hatching? The air cell is on the wide end, but very much to the side of the egg. The chick inside is devloping normally. They are in a circ air incubator with a auto turner right now, but I can leave it upright if that will help it along. I usually take them out of the turner and put them on their side on the wire mesh.
Thats what I got out of it as well, to help in the actual hatch process. My silkie chick was to the side more as well. I would just make sure you pencil mark the air cell just in case u need to help it because of the position. https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/hatching-eggs-101 torwards to bottom of the article u can read more and links pics videos to help a hatch.... Good luck!

 

[4hchickmama]

Thats what I got out of it as well, to help in the actual hatch process. My silkie chick was to the side more as well. I would just make sure you pencil mark the air cell just in case u need to help it because of the position. https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/hatching-eggs-101 torwards to bottom of the article u can read more and links pics videos to help a hatch.... Good luck!

I'm feeling extra smart because I already did that!

Thanks so much. They are d'Anvers eggs, so they are teeny tiny. All the others look normal. I think I might just cut something out to keep just that one upright

 

[Sally Sunshine]

Quote: I just wanted to remind you to also cut the bottom out for air circulation.... Mind you when Halo did hatch he tipped the carton I cut down and flopped out and sorta smashed his shell. so if you can figure something out to keep it weighed down, I suggest it. I bleached rocks for the bottom of my bator to help keep heated if electric goes out and for turning (I do it manually) but perhaps you can do the same and put in the empty spots so this doesnt happen. If it happened and he wasnt ready I dont know if he would make it or not because it could have smashed where it wasnt all absorbed yet and bleed and kill him.... just suggestions.... keep in touch and your welcome to hang out over at our incubating thread and join in the learning too!! https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/704328/diary-notes-air-cell-detatched-shipped-eggs just come over and introduce yourself!! I have 7 in the bator on day 17 now!

 

[Bryam]

Hello!
I received 2 dozen silkie eggs off of e-bay, when I candled them when they arrived I noticed some had loose airsacs, but not ruptured, others had attached air cells, so I let them sit for 12 hours, then I put them into the incubator in an automatic turner on a 90 degree angle, I am planning to only start turner them in 24-36 hours, is that a good plan? I am hoping this will give more time for the eggs to settle and allow for all the airsacs to reattach! Hoping fur the best!