Question about Corid And Mixing Birds

[Debbie292d]

I was really hoping for the best since we've not had rain in a while. But, overall this summer has been really wet. And southern AL is basically one big hot, humidity pit, lol. So I knew the risk was there.

All of my birds are acting normal and eating and drinking. I'm really hoping I've caught this early and the Corid treatment will nip it in the bud. I'll keep them on the medicated feed for a while longer too.

Are all your babies doing okay now?

Oh yes, they never showed physical symptoms, just very bloody poops. They were around two months old at the time and had strong immunity, just not strong enough for that!

 

[Debbie292d]

Thank you so, so much for all of your help! Chicken keeping had given me so much to learn, lol.

I'll keep them on medicated feed for now and I've now got everyone on Corid water. I realized the indoor chicks had tipped their waterer after I filled it this morning, so out was slowly puddling in the bottom of their tent brooder.

I was going to have to get them out for a while anyway to empty and clean it, so here's to a happy integration. Thank goodness we invested in that 8 foot enclosed run...

Next question, if I put the brooder plate in the run with the chicks, can 3 and 5 week olds be outside overnight with lows in the mid to high 60s? Here are some pictures of their current feathering. They've actually been off heat inside, but the brooder plate is still in their pen (unplugged) because they like to stand on it. The room they are in is about 78 during the day and 75 at night. Our lows the next week range from 65 to 70.

As long as they have the brooder plate out there, they'll be fine. We've put ours out a bit older than yours, but with a Cozy Coop radiant heater for a couple of weeks. Pretty close to the same thing.

 

[ChickenChick46]

Oh yes, they never showed physical symptoms, just very bloody poops. They were around two months old at the time and had strong immunity, just not strong enough for that!

I'm glad to hear that. Mine are not showing any symptoms thus far either. Just the poops that look similar to what is in the picture in this thread. But they've all been first thing in the morning. Then everyone has normal poops the rest of the day. But I don't want to take any unnecessary chances.

 

[ChickenChick46]

As long as they have the brooder plate out there, they'll be fine. We've put ours out a bit older than yours, but with a Cozy Coop radiant heater for a couple of weeks. Pretty close to the same thing.

That would be great if I could get them out of my guest room, lol. I would love to properly clean in there before the next batch shows up at the end of the month.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I'll copy something I wrote a few years back on Cocci and medicated feed. Hopefully it has some information in it that can help you make a rational decision.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

To me, one of the main takeaways from this is that until they have been exposed to the protozoa medicated feed does not help. It will not hurt them but its purpose is to reduce the number of protozoa to keep them below harmful levels. If the protozoa is not there the numbers cannot be reduced any further.

Another takeaway is that medicated feed allows some protozoa to reproduce so they can develop immunity. If you are also giving them Corid on a regular basis then you are not allowing them to develop that immunity. If you are having an outbreak then definitely treat then with Corid as per the instructions and clear it up, then stop the Corid and let them develop immunity.

Since yours are acting normal I do not think yours have Cocci. As long as they are acting normal I would not be giving them Corid. But do as you will.

 

[ChickenChick46]

I'll copy something I wrote a few years back on Cocci and medicated feed. Hopefully it has some information in it that can help you make a rational decision.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

To me, one of the main takeaways from this is that until they have been exposed to the protozoa medicated feed does not help. It will not hurt them but its purpose is to reduce the number of protozoa to keep them below harmful levels. If the protozoa is not there the numbers cannot be reduced any further.

Another takeaway is that medicated feed allows some protozoa to reproduce so they can develop immunity. If you are also giving them Corid on a regular basis then you are not allowing them to develop that immunity. If you are having an outbreak then definitely treat then with Corid as per the instructions and clear it up, then stop the Corid and let them develop immunity.

Since yours are acting normal I do not think yours have Cocci. As long as they are acting normal I would not be giving them Corid. But do as you will.

I did bring in clumps of dirt and grass from the back where their coop is, starting when they were very young. I put them in their brooder to peck at and roll in. My hope is that that would help expose them to the natural soil and everything in it in a safe way.

I've read on here so many times that chickens can hide illness so well that by the time it's obvious, they go downhill too fast to help. So with the questionable droppings, I thought getting a jump on it was the best route. Was that a bad idea?

I just don't want to mess this up and hurt my birds.

 

[Ridgerunner]

So with the questionable droppings, I thought getting a jump on it was the best route. Was that a bad idea?

I think that was a great idea. With Cocci, you need to treat it quickly if it shows up. But once they are treated do not overmedicate them.

With Cocci, most of the time you do not get the bloody stools. The different strains of protozoa attack different parts of their digestive tract. With most of those you do not see any blood, but with some you do.

I do not think that was blood, but it could be. Quickly treating it as if it were blood was the correct move.

 

[ChickenChick46]

I think that was a great idea. With Cocci, you need to treat it quickly if it shows up. But once they are treated do not overmedicate them.

With Cocci, most of the time you do not get the bloody stools. The different strains of protozoa attack different parts of their digestive tract. With most of those you do not see any blood, but with some you do.

I do not think that was blood, but it could be. Quickly treating it as if it were blood was the correct move.

Thank you for the reassurance. I haven't beg so nervous about screwing things up since my kids were babies. I'll do the 5 day course of Corid, and if I'm remembering, they need a week of vitamins after? Or am I confusing that with something else?