question about HOA vs City

[t4dbirds]

hi,

I live in Washington State, the city allows for poultry to be raised and puts no limit on number of poultry. Also they allow 3 of any combination of cat/dog.


My CC&R's,

No animals, livestock, or poultry of any kind shall be raised, bred, or kept in any unit except dogs, cats or other indoor household pets which do not cause other neighbors concern may be kept, provided they are not kept, bred, or maintained for for any commercial purpose.

no individual unit owner shall keep more than two (2) dogs, or (2) cats or one dog and cat. (However, I had already moved in before these laws were written and had 2 cats and 1 dog and asked if I had to put one to sleep and that the City law was that I could own three. Well they stated that they should go by city law and hand wrote.

Ok so 8 years later, my sister has gotten me into chickens. I want to have 2 bantam cuchin(?) as my back yard has neighbors trees that cover it and I can't grow anything but weeds and bugs. I thought it would be nice to have these cuties as pets and as a bonus get to have weed and bug free backyard and hopefully the fertilizer will make something grow. I plan on using a dog crate and bringing them in the house each night as ratcoons cross my fence from time to time.

Oh along with now having 2 dogs, 1 cat, I have an African grey (for the last 15 years - about time to buy him a car

) a canary, a cockatiel that was found wondering around and never claimed. Not sure if that helps or hurts my wanting two chick lol.

thanks for any advice.

 

[sune42]

Well...it does say in wording no poultry. That means chickens. HOAs are the devil. If it said livestock and you pulled them in at night, aka house chickens, I might say go for it. That no poultry stares me in the face though. I would maybe bring it up at the next HOA meeting. Or ask for a slot for a proposal. Have a real slick presentation. You could mention the city allows it, but don't make that the basis of your argument. Benefits of poultry, places that have poultry aloud, and common misconceptions of poultry and the truth about these misconceptions would make for some good info.

Good Luck

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

First, is it the CC&Rs or Rules that say "no poultry"? I am guessing the former, and if that is the case, the Board does not have the power to make changes. They can recommend (or not) a change to the CC&Rs, but a community vote will be needed. CC&Rs are typically tough to change--67% or 75% approval of ALL members (not just those who actually vote) is typical. Also, it is typical that any member can enforce the CC&Rs (via lawsuit) if the board does not for whatever reason.

So, your first step is to find out exactly what your documents say. How are provisions changed? What is the size of your HOA? The larger it is, the more difficult a task you have. Anyways, you will need to lobby your community members about the benefits of poultry (such as fertilizer and bug eating), and make sure that any nuisances they can create can be dealt with (either by showing that city ordinances cover the issue, which is a bonus as enforcement can cost an HOA $$$$, or via other provisions in the CC&Rs).

 

[t4dbirds]

Ahhhggg, just went back and reread the CC&R document under the title Rules and Regulations document that states no poultry. So that would mean I would have to get all the owners to agree to change it then

bummer I was hoping it was a separate document since it was emailed to me as a separate document but I think they just must have pulled parts of it out so people see those sections.

Ok now I'm just confused. I don't think it's in the CC&R they just sent it all as one document then sent out as separate as well in the PDF the association sent me. The rules and regs come after all the signatures and in the CC&R it states that the board has the right to change and enforce the rules and regulations. So does that mean I have a better chance because I only have to go to the board?

thanks

 

[MoSo]

My particular approach (which I DO NOT recommend) is to just ignore the CCRs in this respect. We have the same "livestock and poultry" clause. On the other hand, the "subdivision" I live in is about 50 lots of at least one acre each. There are only about 6 houses actually built, and we own three conjoined lots, for a total of almost 4 acres. My closest neighbor (in this subdivision) is at least 1/4 mile away. The CCRs have no enforcement teeth built into them - they can tell me I have to get rid of the chickens, but there is not recourse if I don't.

I've talked to all my neighbors, no one has any objections. The CCRs were written in the 80s, when "poultry" meant keeping a poultry house crammed full of chickens. I'll have 6, no roosters, the coop well away from any street and mostly out of sight. Free range opportunities here are limited (lots of hawks and eagles) so the coop is fully fenced in at about 20x15. No roosters crowing, no chickens wandering around in plain sight.

 

[t4dbirds]

LOL, unfortunately for me, my neighbor on the left side is close and always talks to me over the fence. She probably wouldn't mind she's pretty cool, trouble is she is now engaged to the president of the association so he visits and she talks

so I don't think I could hide it for long. Though I think they are getting ready to sell her house and she move into his, which would be nice for me. Though I'm thinking of coming up with a discussion that it would be beneficial to them as my yard will stay weed free and add ambiance and reduce bugs.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
It sounds like it is the Rules, not the CC&Rs, and if that is the case, the board can change it. They will rely on what they feel is best for the neighborhood. If a large number of homeowners lobby for a change, chances are pretty good that it will pass. Boards DO listen to their constituents, but they have to take into consideration the entire neighborhood, not just one or two members.

 

[t4dbirds]

Hmmmm, I'm thinking of going with my HOA presidents advice that he has told me many times over the years. It's your property and no one had the right to tell you what to do with it, especially your backyard. So maybe I'll just remind him of that LOL. But worse comes to worse I can rehome them with my sister.

 

[NurseELB]

It won't help if they find out you have them while you are chicksitting your sister's 2 new babies as they are louder and bigger. I recommend either keeping all 4 inside until they are gone, or telling your neighbor sooner than later.

BTW

ps. I can't keep them off my keyboard this morning. They keep pecking at the keys! At least they aren't big enough to type yet!

 

[t4dbirds]

Hmmmm, well I plan on keeping them in while neighbor is home

then letting them out when its warm so we can all play on the patio! I just hope my sister has a big enough container for me to keep her two in, since mine are about half the size