Question about pigeons staying

[RiverOtter]

I know a guy who has pigeons in an old barn he'd like trapped and removed. If I were to do it, keeping in mind these are not any particular kind of pigeons, just "feral barn rats", if I cooped them until they had babies and then did the "release one parent for an hour before feeding" thing to wean them out/train them this is home - how likely are they to stay?

And how likely are they, if they leave, to get over 15 miles by air back to his place and bug them again?

I've never had pigeons, but always liked them and have done some studying in case of "if" and "One day", and I don't want them for anything in particular, I just like them, so these birds are as good to me as any. Not to mention free is nice and I'd hate to think of them poisoned out or something (not that there's any rush, he'd just like them gone by summer) but I don't want to "save" them only to have them go winging back to be pests. I'd also not want to coop them for the rest of their lives. About how long would strike a happy medium?

 

[sylviethecochin]

From experience with this same thing (as a kid, our barn was infested by winged rats)--you might be able to raise up the squabs. Ours stuck around the barnyard and one or two of them were very people-friendly. The others (about six or so) weren't.

You're not going to be able to train the parents, and they're going to go back exactly from whence they came. Maybe not all of them, but certainly a lot of them.

 

[LamarshFish]

I know a guy who has pigeons in an old barn he'd like trapped and removed. If I were to do it, keeping in mind these are not any particular kind of pigeons, just "feral barn rats", if I cooped them until they had babies and then did the "release one parent for an hour before feeding" thing to wean them out/train them this is home - how likely are they to stay?

And how likely are they, if they leave, to get over 15 miles by air back to his place and bug them again?

I've never had pigeons, but always liked them and have done some studying in case of "if" and "One day", and I don't want them for anything in particular, I just like them, so these birds are as good to me as any. Not to mention free is nice and I'd hate to think of them poisoned out or something (not that there's any rush, he'd just like them gone by summer) but I don't want to "save" them only to have them go winging back to be pests. I'd also not want to coop them for the rest of their lives. About how long would strike a happy medium?

There are several facets to your questions, requiring a few different answers.

First, understand that feral pigeons are feral, in that they were once domesticated, or descend from once domesticated pigeons (most you find are likely relatives, but you never know, you could trap a racing bird recently lost that is worth thousands). Pigeons are not native to the US. So, feral pigeons you see here ultimately came, either directly or in lineage, from domesticated pigeons, whether those be racing homers, rollers, fancy pigeons etc. Just by numbers and popularity, it is likely most ferals are homers. They look the most like homers. That raises the question of their homing instincts. We have no way of figuring out each individual feral bird's ability to home without trying it out by catching it, releasing it some distance, and seeing if that exact bird made it back to where you trapped it. In any event, I have heard that some ferals possess little to no homing instinct at all (thus they find home in ways that non-homing pigeons do, likely by sight and memory, etc), but other ferals have been observed to possess homing instincts comparable to good racing homers, so the ability to home from several hundreds of miles or more at great speeds. That all being said, I have heard several folks indicate that you can assume most ferals can home within 50 miles, as a general, fairly loose rule. So, if you trap and remove ferals, I think you should assume they possess homing ability to return back within 50 miles, maybe more. It is best to relocate them very far away if you want to help somebody who finds them to be a nuisance, or euthanize them in a humane way (which, if you do, I encourage you to eat them or try to find somebody who will such that they don't go to waste).

Those ferals offspring, not having been crossed to proven racing lines, would be likely to posses similar instincts to their feral parents, and therefore you should expect the same results if you're to raise their offspring (perhaps some homing ability, but not excellent homing ability). I know one guy who keeps a loft of pigeons to use for dog training, and he started his loft with ferals, so all his birds are ferals, and he's able to do training within several miles of his home, and his "feral" birds return to his loft.

That raises the question, if you're interested in homers, should you use ferals as your beginning stock? I say, no, it's a waste of time, and you are better off just spending some time and a little bit of money to buy squeakers from racers or fanciers that keep nice homers. This will increase your likelihood of good results. If you are interested in breeding the ferals for some other reason, you can certainly trap them, and keep them in a loft, and allow them to raise young. The parents, if released, will likely return to their original home or die trying (if they have solid homing instinct), but are also likely to remain in your loft after they have raised several rounds of youngsters. In any event, there is one thing to be said about ferals, they are not just flying rats, they are descendants of domesticated pigeons that presumably had some value to somebody, be it homing instincts, speed, rolling, etc. The feral descendants may not posses the exact qualities their domesticated relatives had, it undoubtedly thins over time and with breeding, but there is one thing that they do possess, and that is the will and ability to SURVIVE.

As far as training the babies go, I have never heard of what you are talking about when you say release the parent one hour before feeding. Baby pigeons need their parents up until they are about 35 days old. Training can begin at day 30-35ish, which begins with training in a settling cage, then using the door which you expect them to enter, then flying about the yard, then after the first few times they decide to fly and route, you are ready to start tosses (so 1 mile, then 3 miles, 5 miles and so on).

 

[RiverOtter]

Thank you so much @LamarshFish for that great answer!
To the best of my knowledge the birds have been there for many years, and likely were homers many, many generations back. The ones there have lost that sleek look that homers have and look like the fatter, heavier street pigeons you see under every city bridge.

I grew up in the city ( I'm a fairly feral street rat myself, I meant no disrespect by the term, survival is a good thing) and one of my uncles had a loft of racing homers and while it gave me a deep fondness for pigeons, I don't know if I'd want to get that deeply into it - a racing loft is a serious thing! But it would simply give me pleasure to be able to look up and see them, and I actually prefer the plainer ones to the fancies - fantails and such. I live out in the sticks now and I'd never be tempted to keep tumblers or rollers - to me those are city birds, here they'd be hawk bait and it wouldn't be fair to them. While I am involved in dog training and we do eat what we raise, I've no problem admitting they'd basically be pets. It would be nice to learn enough from them that I could teach my 4H kids pigeon basics. So plain jane, who-knows-what pigeons are a good fit for me

As far as training the babies go, I have never heard of what you are talking about when you say release the parent one hour before feeding. Baby pigeons need their parents up until they are about 35 days old. Training can begin at day 30-35ish, which begins with training in a settling cage, then using the door which you expect them to enter, then flying about the yard, then after the first few times they decide to fly and route, you are ready to start tosses (so 1 mile, then 3 miles, 5 miles and so on).

I didn't mean the babies. I meant, if I feed every night at 6 for long enough for them to know it, and then when the birds have young, and are therefore more likely to come home, let one parent from a nest out at 5 to sort of orient on "here is where my nest is, here is where my mate is, here is where I'm fed" and help them mentally establish the area as "Home".

I will keep in mind that they might have good homing instincts, but are they very likely to fly away in that hour? Are there signs I could look for to see? Would it help to build a flight loft? If I were to try this (it is still very much an if) is there a month that it would be best?

 

[Hokum Coco]

I cooped them until they had babies and then did the "release one parent for an hour before feeding" thing to wean them out/train them this is home - how likely are they to stay?

Monetarily wise feral pigeons have little to no value. Champion racing or homing pigeons have sold for upward of a million dollars in some countries.
When orientating adult homers to my loft I let them raise 3 clutches before attempting a release. Where your blood line is not known
for the best results I would suggest doing the same.
Your adult feral pigeons will be extremely flighty when captured. One ace in the hole when it comes to pigeons is their love for shelled peanuts. It is like crack cocaine to them. This is what you can expect in time when feeding peanuts to your birds as a treat only with in about 2+- months of approaching them slowly with no sudden movements.

It cost the same to feed a champion homing pigeon as it does a feral.

 

[LamarshFish]

Thank you so much @LamarshFish for that great answer!

No worries, holler on this forum if you need help. There aren't many pigeon people on here, but the few there are can be very helpful.

I don't know if I'd want to get that deeply into it - a racing loft is a serious thing! But it would simply give me pleasure to be able to look up and see them

I have racing homers but I don't race, it's too much of a time commitment, I am like you, they just bring me joy and I enjoy watching them fly. It really is rewarding to care for them and a real stress reliever to watch them fly around.

I am involved in dog training

I originally built my loft last spring and got my homers to train a pointing dog using remote launchers because I was tired of buying game birds in poor quality and having to waste their lives, and I found pigeons to be better fliers. I liked the ability to control the flush precisely using a remote launcher. After several months of having my young birds, I fell in love with them and haven't been able to bring myself to use them for training, not because I think it's cruel to put them in the launcher (they sit comfortably in those things for only 5-10 mins, and it only flips them about 2 feet in the air so they can get a good head start from a dog that isn't steady), but more because I'm afraid they won't come back. I never did toss training with mine, I only loft fly my current birds. The only training with pigeons and remote launchers I have been doing has been by trapping ferals and training with them within 5 miles of where I trapped them to ensure they make it home. I might raise a round of young birds from my loft though and train them on tosses so I can use them to train at some of our training grounds that are 30-50 miles from my house, but I'm still weary of it. I really just fell in love with these fellas. They are like my little buddies now, and it also is just coincidental that I've steadied my dog pretty well to wing and shot, so I really only need to polish him up using the ferals every few months.

It would be nice to learn enough from them that I could teach my 4H kids pigeon basics. So plain jane, who-knows-what pigeons are a good fit for me

Awesome plan. I can see kids getting great pleasure from this. It allows the enjoyment and excitement of animals, but also teaches them discipline and how to care for something. Very cool.

I didn't mean the babies. I meant, if I feed every night at 6 for long enough for them to know it, and then when the birds have young, and are therefore more likely to come home, let one parent from a nest out at 5 to sort of orient on "here is where my nest is, here is where my mate is, here is where I'm fed" and help them mentally establish the area as "Home".

Ahh, I see. The best way to do this is to simply keep them knowing you mean food. Feed them twice a day only an amount they can finish in about 15 minutes (takes some time to gauge that and figure it out), and when you feed blow a whistle and/or shake a can filled with corn. This trains them to associate the feeding with a sound so you can call them back to your loft. In any event, whistling aside, it won't take them long to figure out they get food in your loft, but that probably won't be what brings them back, you should still wait for birds that didn't learn to fly in your loft for them to raise at least 3-4 clutches of young before letting them out, and even then there is a risk they attempt to fly back to where they came from.

I will keep in mind that they might have good homing instincts, but are they very likely to fly away in that hour? Are there signs I could look for to see? Would it help to build a flight loft? If I were to try this (it is still very much an if) is there a month that it would be best?

I will keep in mind that they might have good homing instincts, but are they very likely to fly away in that hour? Are there signs I could look for to see? Would it help to build a flight loft? If I were to try this (it is still very much an if) is there a month that it would be best?

I would scrap that idea you are thinking about with food, and only train youngsters born in your loft, or squeakers you bought from somebody who can tell you that they never flew from their loft. You can try to start your loft with ferals, they will certainly breed, but I personally think you will have better results and an easier time (and quicker use of your birds) if you simply go buy 8-12 squeakers from somebody. As far as training methods go, check out this old Army manual, the US military used to train homers to use in battle, and this provides good information: https://ia801207.us.archive.org/10/items/1945TM11-410/1945TM11-410.pdf

 

[RiverOtter]

You guys are seriously awesome! I'll keep you posted on if this happens.

 

[LamarshFish]

You guys are seriously awesome! I'll keep you posted on if this happens.

Please do! If you're interested in asking around for racing homer squeakers, check out this list of breeders in your state (see link below). It may be dated, but it's worth a try. If that doesn't work, look up the local racing club and start asking around. This is a bad time of year to get squeakers from racers though, as they are hatching and raising their young bird teams for the race season (but I would still ask). Later summer would be a good time, they usually stop their birds from breeding because they don't need any more young birds by then, but if they know somebody like you who wants to start a loft is interested in birds they may allow more breeding just for you.

http://mumtazticloft.com/Pigeonbreeders.asp?Viewb=NY

 

[jak2002003]

Hi. I have caught and kept feral pigeons before with great success.

Only one of the 10 flew back to its original home.

If the birds are going to get killed and you want to try to rescue them and care for them that's great. The are basically the same thing as feral cats or dogs.. and they would be better off in a home rather than living 'wild'.

If they are happy they will stay with you.

Give them a large coop, plenty of food and water, nesting boxes. Keep them a few weeks...till they start to pair up and make nests. Then you can try to release them from the coop by just opening the door. Make sure they are tame with you before you do this.

Might be good to let a few out at a time... so they can see the other birds in the coop which will encourage them to stick around.

The feral pigeons I took all needed rescuing... one had no feet, several will sick and starving, one had a broken wing and one had an really bad eye infection. My favourite one has one eye and scissor beak. He was really thin and struggling to survive and get enough food. Now he is really fat and friendly!

Be warned, they come with a lot of parasites and diseases usually if from an urban environment. When you first get them make sure you de parasite them and good idea to use a general all round pigeon disease treatment product for canker, cocci etc if you notice some are not healthy.

 

[LamarshFish]

Be warned, they come with a lot of parasites and diseases usually if from an urban environment. When you first get them make sure you de parasite them and good idea to use a general all round pigeon disease treatment product for canker, cocci etc if you notice some are not healthy.

This is solid advice. If you start your loft with ferals, I would administer a broad spectrum all purpose antiobiotic, a dewormer as well as treat for external parasites. I would do this as follows:

1. Dust all birds with something like diatomaceous earth powder (food grade) and/or offer them a bath with good pigeon bath salts that are made to kill parasites, such as this: https://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/dr-pigeon/7031-dr-pigeons-bath-salts. I would do both with ferals.

2. Before and after you administer the dewormer and the antiobiotics, offer good probiotics. This is especially important after the administration of anti-biotics, as they will kill all the good bacteria and fauna in their gut and leave their gut health susceptible to issues.

3. Use a dewormer such as levamisole, such as this: https://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/medications/worms-wormers/2546-all-in-one-100-grams.

4. Use an all in one broad spectrum anti-biotic that covers the common issues with pigeons such as Salmonella/Paratyphoid) E-coli, Coccidiosis and Canker. This is a good example of a product like this: https://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/medications/multiple-use-medications/2507-avio-4-1-powder.

5. Thereafter, for maintenance of good health and to avoid the issues the aforementioned treatments seek to remove, offer a bath at least once a week with the bath salts, which they love anyways (but not when it's too cold out). Keep fresh water treated with organic apple cider vinegar (about 2 tbs / gallon of water)--this prevents canker and other illnesses, and is also very good for the birds, and they like the taste. Adding garlic makes it even better, and the birds will love the taste (when I buy the large gallon bottles of applie cider vinegar, I take one full bulb of garlic and juice the entire thing and add the juice to the large bottle of apple cider vinegar and it lasts for a very long time, since the large bottle of apple cider vinegar is then treated with garlic so you don't have to add the garlic each time). Continue to offer probiotics about weekly, but at least once a month. If you use pro biotics that go in their water, I would not add the apple cider vinegar to the water with the pro biotics, I would keep them separate.

The products above can be found at online vendors other than Foy's, such as Jedd's.