Questions about breeding to standard.

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
The APA can only dictate so much, because it can only evaluate a bird at a specific moment. It is up to the individual breeder as to whether or not s/he wants to preserve the historical function of the breed. With the advent of the modern production animal, there is really no necessity to have a Standard bred animal that feeds a community, either through meat production or through egg laying. As hobbyists, we have to maintain the physical characteristics of the individual breeds in order to win shows, which usually retains their function to some degree, since the frame, size, and physicality often determine the production potential of a bird. But all else is not up for public view, so how would APA evaluate it, even if it were part of the Standard?

I don't disagree with you at all. I breed Red Dorkings, and as far as I'm concerned any bird that doesn't brood reliably, raise chicks with good parenting skills, forage well, move about the farm like a well organized hunting party, fly well, display health and vigor, have a calm and gentle temperament, lay eggs throughout winter and spring, produce ample meat of phenomenal taste and perfect texture, with roosters that would fight to the death to protect their flock, but with the judgement to be totally safe around children, hens, and chicks --- well, any bird that doesn't fit that description just isn't a true Red Dorking, even if it meets the SOP perfectly. But that's just me. I don't show, so the perfection of color detail is less important to me than the perfection of meat qualities, behavior, and survivability in a free range management system. If I were to show, how would a judge evaluate the non-SOP aspects that I hold important? It can't be done, so the SOP doesn't try. It is up to the breeder to decide if s/he wants to preserve both the full function and the physicality of the breed, or just the SOP requirements. Finding a breeder, and ideally a mentor, that matches your goals is important when you start looking for your breeding stock.

 

[K813ZRA]

The APA can only dictate so much, because it can only evaluate a bird at a specific moment.  It is up to the individual breeder as to whether or not s/he wants to preserve the historical function of the breed.  With the advent of the modern production animal, there is really no necessity to have a Standard bred animal that feeds a community, either through meat production or through egg laying.  As hobbyists, we have to maintain the physical characteristics of the individual breeds in order to win shows, which usually retains their function to some degree, since the frame, size, and physicality often determine the production potential of a bird.  But all else is not up for public view, so how would APA evaluate it, even if it were part of the Standard?


I don't disagree with you at all.  I breed Red Dorkings, and as far as I'm concerned any bird that doesn't brood reliably, raise chicks with good parenting skills, forage well, move about the farm like a well organized hunting party, fly well, display health and vigor, have a calm and gentle temperament, lay eggs throughout winter and spring, produce ample meat of phenomenal taste and perfect texture, with roosters that would fight to the death to protect their flock, but with the judgement to be totally safe around children, hens, and chicks --- well, any bird that doesn't fit that description just isn't a true Red Dorking, even if it meets the SOP perfectly.  But that's just me.  I don't show, so the perfection of color detail is less important to me than the perfection of meat qualities, behavior, and survivability in a free range management system.  If I were to show, how would a judge evaluate the non-SOP aspects that I hold important?  It can't be done, so the SOP doesn't try.  It is up to the breeder to decide if s/he wants to preserve both the full function and the physicality of the breed, or just the SOP requirements.  Finding a breeder, and ideally a mentor, that matches your goals is important when you start looking for your breeding stock.

Thank you, that makes perfect sense and I hadn't thought of it that way.

 

[cgmccary]

Quote:
Wrong. Breeding to standard is the same as breeding the bird for its original purpose / function. They are one and the same. A bird bred to the Standard of Perfection will serve its function. If it is a dual purpose fowl, then the Standard bred bird will be just that. Not breeding to Standard, the bird looses its function. The APA has put back in the SOP the instructions to the judges, economic qualities of standard-bred fowls, page 13-15 of the SOP. If you have not read the first 39 pages of the Standard of Perfection, you should because these questions would be answered for you.


Also, a broody breed does not mean all of that breed will be or should be broody only that this trait is common for the breed and it has nothing to do with making the breed SOP proper. Broodiness can vary individual to individual but is common in some breeds but has been bred out in other breeds (especially the Mediterranean breeds which are more the egg producing breeds). A broody hen does not lay eggs during her state of being broody.

I have Buckeyes and they are a broody breed. Most of the hens go broody but not all of them. I had a Buckeye hen pass away at 9 years old and she never went broody. That had nothing to do with her being Standard bred or meeting the SOP description for her breed. I do not select one way or another for the trait of broodiness though if I wanted to get rid of the trait I could select against it. It is annoying to have a dozen hens broody at the same time though if I need a hen to hatch and raise, I have them in abundance. I can see though where the trait can be annoying.

I also keep La Fleche which are not a broody breed. I have had one hen to go partially broody. Interestingly, you can take two breeds that never go broody and breed them together and get a broody bird. The gene is there in all chickens.

In regards to your Orpingtons, if hatchery Orpingtons, the hatchery selects against broodiness or has bred something else into them to make them be more of a layer (and effectively a hatchery Buff Orpington is not really am Orpington). The hatchery birds usually aren't broody even IF a "broody breed."

 

[Egghead_Jr]

What's interesting is how breeds and the SOP of those breeds evolve over time. The breed of your interest, Orpington, has moved to appear more like a Cochin by the modern English standard. The American standard still preserves the bird somewhat. As for the birds original intent you'd have to read some of Cooks writings. He liked the Buff creation from his original Black bird, it was smaller in size but was a better layer. Those original Buff birds gained size over the decades. Cook's intent was to make a utility bird that rivaled the Plymouth Rock that England could claim there own. That was his sole intent. How he liked the better laying Buff was greatly overshadowed by his adoration of what Australia did with his original Black Orpington. They truly moved forward the Orp to a utility dual purpose bird. So much so it was deemed separate breed- Australorp or Australian Orpington. All those poofy feathers England has added to Orpingtons in later part of 20th Century would make Cook roll over in his grave. The modern Orp has turned a fanciers bird and is moving away from utility.

 

[3riverschick]

Hi,
If you are seeking stunning Buff Orpingtons, consider BYC Dragonlady. She has been breeding poultry over 50 years. Has some of the very finest in the nation.
Best,
Karen

 

[Fred's Hens]

Hi,
If you are seeking stunning Buff Orpingtons, consider BYC Dragonlady. She has been breeding poultry over 50 years. Has some of the very finest in the nation.
Best,
Karen

I believe Vickie retired from poultry.