Questions about starting and EE flock?

[kstaven]

Have to argue with one point here Kev. I brought in a columbian patterned rooster to breed to Birchen Ameraucana hens years ago. All hens laying good blue eggs. Only 40% of the female progeny produced anything close to a blue or blue/green egg. So even starting out with blue egg hens is no guarantee. I'm currently on year 4 of selection cleaning this up for egg color and know I have a lot of work still.

Stabilizing the columbian pattern was far easier and predictable than egg color has been.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Thats why you buy a pure rooster from a breeder that has a good reputation. If all of their birds lay blue eggs then the chicks he sires should lay atleast green eggs depending on what the hen is. If you breed him to a white egg layer, you will get blue eggs. There is a person in Canada that is working on production bred blue egg layers, they crossed ameraucana roo with white leghorn hens. They call them Monique blueggers. Here is a link about them http://www.ameraucana.org/abcforum/index.php?a=topic&t=647

 

[Kev]

Quote:
My first post was in regards to producing a line of EE. As is, it works fine. I should have added that 2nd generation(sometimes even first) down, as long as roosters of another breed are used, only half of the hens will lay blue or green eggs.

I can't tell if you referring to my first post or to the concept of strictly only blue eggs or some blue eggers. From the above I can't tell if the rest of your cross hens laid tinted or green eggs.

In any case, it is possible to get blue eggers. I will agree it is not "that easy" to develop a line of strictly only blue eggers.

In an egg trade, I got 2 doz blue eggs, not a single green or tinted egg in there. They hatched out chicks that were obvious "complete mongrels". Crests, frizzle, naked necks. silky feathers were present in various chicks. At maturity, most laid blue eggs, with the occasional lay blue-green or light green eggs.

When some were bred to true araucanas, about half laid green eggs.. (rest either turquoise or pale blue). Some of the hens from this cross were bred with pure Asil rooster. Half of the hens laid tinted, the rest laying either blue, blue-green.. very few laid green eggs.. some pullets laid green eggs but when they were older, their eggs started coming up turquoise.

I still have a 3/4 Cornish hen(cornish was of the show stock type) and she lays blue eggs. That hen was from a cross using a cornish rooster then breeding a daughter back to him. 3 of my naked necks descended from the above mutts lay blue..

Crosses with other breeds did produce more green eggers. I bred a hatchery naked neck rooster with two of my blue egger NN hens, got 4 pullets which started laying last month, two lay tinted, two lay green eggs. Oddly, they have a half sister out of the same rooster with another hen, she lays white eggs.

Do you have pictures of your columbians? I bet they are really pretty.. I'm really surprised at how few colors were accepted in the standard.. it would be great to see more colors accepted.

 

[Kev]

Quote:
Why must it be a rooster with the O gene? Yes that is an advise that will work well but not sure why that's so important.

If someone wants to develop an EE line starting with a rooster over brown or white eggers, it does not really matter if the rooster is "pure" and came from a reputable breeder or a total mutt that has the O gene. Just as long as he has it.

Whether or not the rooster has the O gene will not be a major concern if hens are selected on basis of their laying blue or green eggs. It's much easier that way and anybody can do that- going to a reputable breeder is almost unnecessary expense in this case.

 

[kstaven]

The way I read your post it looked like you where saying any old rooster and blue egg hens would produce blue egg laying progeny without issue. That is why I made a comment.

Getting new colors accepted is a nightmare for LF. ABA is far easier to deal with than APA on this.

The Canadian Araucana Society has been attempting to get a long standing mistake corrected for years with BBR and Wheaton.

As to the Columbians, I got my fingers slapped by more than a few Ameraucana breeders for that one. All annoyed that I chose to work on a new color rather than perfecting an accepted one. So these days I really tend not to advertise what I have here that is not an accepted APA standard color. I know an old gentleman that was literally run off because of his red/blacks. They are absolutely gorgeous.

 

[Kev]

Ah yes, I agree.. the crosses will be laying green, green blue and/or blue eggs.. and that creating a line of strictly blue eggers is more of a challenge. I assume that whenever a person asks about EE, they are not also expecting blue eggs only.

It's also tricky trying to decide which terminology and how much information to add is best for a particular thread. "Blue egg gene" may be read as birds that lay blue eggs without realizing that the gene is also affected by brown egg genes, causing green yet it gets clunky saying "blue and green eggs" in nearly every sentence..

Ah yes, politics and emotion.. a volatile mix. One time I brought up a comment of a NN roo with a very nice rose comb and type to another breeder and the person went off the deep end using not very nice words and personal attacks. That completely put me off mentioning rose combs again, despite the fact it is(or was) basically allowed in the standard.

Very very sad your and that gentleman's good work caused friction. Just sad. I believe acceptance of more colors can really give a breed a boost in popularity. OEGBs have just about every color and pattern possible and they are a tremendously popular breed with quite a good number of excellent specimens(that is I don't think more colors will dilute the overall quality of the breed).

 

[kstaven]

That is the thing I wrestle with all the time when replying to posts. How much detail to go into.

The controversy on color has not stopped me at all. I will continue to work with perfecting the lines and quietly work with others that want to partake in the project. Then when the line hits the point we feel it needs to be at, we will go after acceptance and have the number of birds and people to do it. Getting slammed just made me more determined to see it through and peaked the interest of a few other breeders. So in the end they did me a BIG favor! It is a shame we have to work in that fashion, as I am sure there are people who would love to get involved in these types of projects. But it sure makes life easier!

Not absolutely sure on the current standard, but I believe only the single comb is recognized currently.